to want to convince my friend not to have an abortion?

[coveredinsnot]

Ok, so it's more complicated than the title. Scenario is this:

She is pregnant. It was a surprise. They have been together since January. It's his first ever 'proper' relationship in his life, even though he's in his 30s (very shy...), she's in early 30s, wants kids. He's decided now isn't the right time, as he wants more time just to experience life in a relationship. So, he's asked her to have an abortion.

I'm really not sure how strongly I should convey my thoughts that this would be a mistake. And I think it would be a disaster on so many levels. But it's his/their decision.

I'm not anti-abortion generally at all, but I do feel anti forcing a woman who wants to have kids to have an abortion just because you had an extended bachelorhood and want a bit more play time.

Thoughts?

If they both want different things (her the baby, him not) I think the relationship is doomed either way tbh. Whatever they decide to do, one of them is bound to be left feeling resentment.

It may be hard but you need to step back and let them decide between them. Just be there to support and love your friend unconditionally.

it's none of your business unless either party asks you. Even then, I would direct them to a family planning clinic where they can have professional counselling.

YABU to want to convince him. For starters you can't possibly know if having an abortion would be a disaster.

However it would be reasonable imo (assuming you and your friend have this kind of relationship, and only you know that) to suggest that going through with the pregnancy might not be a disaster. He needs to think about the possibility that maybe he isn't the centre of the universe and that perhaps in life one has to compromise one's plans to accommodate unexpected events. It's all part of life's rich tapestry (among other platitudes...)

If I were in your shoes I would tell him that he was being totally unreasonable to ask her to have an abortion. He can express his lack of enthusiasm, his concerns etc but, as posieparkerinChina says, he has no right to insist. In fact what posieparkerinChina said all round, really.

Message withdrawn

i don't get the idea that a man can't ask or make known his desire for the child to be aborted. of course the idea of insisting or forcing a woman to have one is disgusting.
but everyone seems to agree that the couple involved need to discuss what's going on. surely that should then be an open and frank discussion where he makes his feelings known . i.e. " i would like for the foetus to be aborted" rather than trying to vaguely convey this message through subtle messages and proferring a lack of enthusiasm.

ultimately it will be the womans decision what happens, but i don't see why that should preclude the father from expressing his desires as he will be tied to the child if born as well.

mayorquimby I think you follow his line of thought entirely, they have (I think) an open and honest relationship.

I know they were practicing 'natural' methods of contraception (tempting fate, if you ask me!) and had already had a scare once, so, I think if he really didn't want to have a baby, he should have been more responsible.

So far I have had a very long conversation with him about it all yesterday, and have already done what a lot of you suggested which is to just listen and ask lots of questions, and encouraged him to consider things he wasn't considering, like the effects of the abortion on their relationship, and also the possible positives of becoming a father. However, he is very pessimistic, and is a very black-and-white thinker anyway, so it's really all or nothing with him.

He seems very emotionally cut off from the whole process though, describing how he knew that after the abortion, were it to happen, he'd have to remain physically close to his partner in order to comfort her, even though he knew that he wouldn't be grieving anything himself.

He also said after a recent bleed and early scan, that he was hoping that perhaps there would be a miscarriage, and that would be an easy way out.

I guess I'm just wondering whether, after all his years of seclusion and leading a very self-centred and selfish life (he would agree with this, by the way), that he is finding it very hard to see what is happening from her perspective. He doesn't really 'do' empathy. I feel very sorry for his partner, but I also think that she should know him fairly well by now (they've spent a LOT of time together over their short relationship).

Oh, I'm waffling. Anyway, it's hard to convey all of the intricacies of him, their relationship, and the impact that an abortion would likely have.

I guess my original question stands: am I justified in being direct with him about how I feel, and think things may turn out? (If he asks, of course!)

And as an aside, for those of you who say they need to do all of the thinking and talking, I agree it is their decision, but I think with his lack of experience he really needs to widen his sources of information to really be able to consider what he is doing.

YABU

A very personal decision. One no one but the two parties can comment on.

I can really understand where you're coming from. Whilst I agree with mayorquimby that the man should be able to state what he wants from what you've most recently posted then if you think it is right then you can point out he needs to think about it from her perspective far more and understand that if she does have an abortion after being badgered into it by him then given the circumstances the relationship is unlikely (although possible) to survive this and does he really want to lose her - the pause button doesn't really exist on this. With the "natural birth control" though it sounds to me like she was keen to get pregnant.

I think she was keen to get pregnant, AxisofEvil - the week before they found out, she was telling me that she was putting her career decisions on hold because she wanted kids. He told me himself that she's been broody and nesting the whole time he's known her. In some respects, I think he kind of fell in to her lair, I mean it's not difficult to know how you get pregnant, they're both bright adults. Perhaps now with his strong and very self-centred reaction, she's finally learning about how he functions which might be news to her...

He did say she was really pestering him for a definitive answer about how he felt when he told her he thought she should have an abortion. I suggested to him that perhaps he'd been pushed into a corner when in actuality, he was still unsure about what he wanted to do. We discussed how it's ok to be unsure about these things, and to occupy a middle ground.

Er... "In some respects, I think he kind of fell in to her lair, I mean it's not difficult to know how you get pregnant, they're both bright adults"

...so why didn't he use a condom? Signs were obvious, he knew he was having sex with a broody woman, she knew that he knew he was having sex with a broody woman. With this info, I very much doubt she'll end the pregnancy, and in that instance he should take his fair share of emotional and financial responsibility for the child (even if he now wants to run away from her!).

covered, I certainly wouldn't give my opinion to this man even if asked. To be frank he doesn't sound as if he is good at taking personal responsibility. He clearly knew they were risking a pregnancy but did not take responsibility to make sure it didn't happen - which he should have done if he did not want a pregnancy so strongly.

If you give your opinion I feel with someone like that it will just come down on you in some way. Whatever happens, whether it is abortion or proceeding with the pregnancy, feelings are going to be running very high; and if you are there some of that will be deflected on you in some way - almost certainly.

Just keep on with the sympathetic noises, I think.

She should not do it if she dosn't want to but she may be prepared to be a single mum. This is what happened to me and I couldn't be happier. He sounds like a knob cheese.