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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be disturbed and angry by what it says about women in the bible

109 replies

Kayugaduck · 11/08/2009 00:19

I am making a concerted effort to read the bible (my dd has been given a good copy as a primary school leaver's present.) I can't believe what I'm reading. Starting from the beginning, Genesis. Talk of son after son being born, talk of women being punished for ever more by having pain in labour. I mean, come on! There is even the rape of Dinah.

I am horrified and shocked at what I'm reading and deeply disturbed.

Why is there no mention of the dinosaurs? It all sounds so cruel, farfetched and untrue. How are we supposed to believe in this?

I do feel spiritual however and am in awe of Life, nature etc but disagree that man should rule over all other lifeforms. Or that man should rule over his wife!

OP posts:
sockmonkey · 11/08/2009 16:01

If you look at more recent history it's still pretty much the same thing. Women don't get much of a mention unless they were very very good or very very bad.
A book that's a good few thousand years old, which has been copied, translated, re-translated, copied again,translated again etc, will have been warped and changed each time, with parts taken out, parts added back later.
All you can do is look for the good in it, take the spirit of the message and try to see if it applies to yourself in some way.

alexpolismum · 11/08/2009 16:05

pofaced - it gets even more interesting when you think about what the word 'theos' originally meant - 'he who moves extremely quickly' (loose translation, but you see what I mean). Perhaps it takes us back to the days of the fear of immediately being struck down by lightning!

But yes, I agree that the Christian God has been seen as male for centuries.

FAQtothefuture · 11/08/2009 16:12

Sorry BoF but that's nonsense - of course you can take any single verse out of the bible and make it what you want - but verse have bits before them - and after - which explain more about what it means - and references in other parts of the bible to the same teaching.

Being a Christian isn't just about reading the bible and believing it all to be true - it's about having faith. You can't make someone have faith - they either do or they don't.

roneef · 11/08/2009 16:34

Faith in what FAQ?

bleh · 11/08/2009 16:56

Oh FGS. When people go on (see this thread) about how the Bible is fairy stories, or, "actually, the NT is not that bad, it's the OT that is rubbish" you are insulting Jewish texts. A lot of the religious rules, without background or understanding, do not make much sense.
For example, not working on the Sabbath. Sounds crazy. But, the word for "work" is not as in, your job, or career (that in Hebrew is words related to Avodat) but a word referring to specific actions (the word is melachot). All of these actions relate to creation, or mastering of your environment. As G-d rested from creation on the 7th day, so humans are reminded by observance of the shabbos rules, that they are ultimately not the masters of the universe, or even of our own lives (in amongst other things). Would you have gotten that from briefly reading the NIV? I didn't think so.

wahwahwah · 11/08/2009 17:01

As with most writing, it's in the editing. Aparently there were more books of the bible written but edited out at later stages. Some of these were supposedly written by women and a bit more women-friendly. I suppose it reflected the times.

I am sure it says that you can beat your wife in there somewhere.

SolidGoldBrass · 11/08/2009 22:02

My take on religions remains that they are all a load of bollocks. That I do not specifically take a pop at the particulars of Islam/Judaism/Shinto/Hinduism is down to my not having studied them enough to pick out the most ludicrous bits to have a go at, whereas growing up in the UK has meant being surrounded by enough Christianity to be aware of the laughable (and contemptible) bits of it in more detail.

Kayugaduck · 11/08/2009 23:26

Have just got back from the worst place possible on a hot summer's day, Legoland. Too many crowds,AWFUL.

I have gained more insight from this thread than I have from my bible reading (so far) so thank you.

I'm the sort of person who has 'gone along' with the c of e in terms of school events, had 2 dc christened, got myself confirmed a while back in order to get married in church etc all the while feeling a bit of a fraud as I have never actually sat down and understood what this take on religion is all about.

I'm sorry if I've caused offense to some but why should I not be honest? I don't think trying to understand equals poking fun and that in itself is pretty offensive. I wonder how many people have actually sat down and tried to read the bible.

I wonder how far some of the ideas in the bible have actually brought about/perpetuated the idea of women's subjugation. But of course it could be said that women are universally badly treated, not just in bible reading cultures.

I just look at the things wrong in the world today and it is the destruction of natural resources, fighting over territory, and it is usually the women and the children who have the least influence/power/raw end of the deal.

To redress the balance through religion would then filter through the cultures and be worth a shot I say.

OP posts:
illgetyoubutler · 12/08/2009 01:25

I need to correct those who say the Quraan does not order a specific dress code for women, and that it is purely culteral. these are some of the verses (english translation) ordering he believing women to cover. Also, the men are ordered to lower their gaze and keep their eyes to themselves, to refrain from looking at the women, as well as follow a specific dress code. the believing women and men take the command of the dress code from the verses of Quraan firstly, then look to the 'Sunnah' (meaning 'way' or understanding)of Muhummad and his rightly guided companions, both men and women, and take their example of how the verses of Quraan are to be implemented and practised in the correct manner. This is why we see similarities (not with every muslim, but generally) with the women wearing loose, flowing garments which cover the body, and the men growing thick beards, wearing long dress like shirts, or 'thobe', usually white, which is always worn above the ankle and below the knee, and a head piece or scarf. to say muslim women cover is a result from a culteral practice rather than religious is incorrect, as they take the command from scripture. because any person from any background, any culture or any part of the world east an west may become muslim, sometimes their own cultural dress may influence their islamic dress. i can tell a muslim from pakistan for example, and the somali muslims have a their own way of covering, as do the arabs themselves. so perhaps this is why many people think its a culteral thing more than religious. (i will stop here cos i dont think im coming across very well! cant put into text what's in my head!)

The Noble Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:59

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)* all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

*the arabic word here is Jalabeeb (plural of Jalbaab), which is the loose outer garment that covers all a woman's body. It says here to use the Jalabeeb to cover all, and scholars say this means to use it to cover her head (agree upon by all scholars) and her face (agreed by many scholars, not all, as some say to cover the face, and others say it is not obligitary), in order for it to be known that she is a free woman and so not to be exposed to any harm.

Hadith - Bukhari 6:282

'Aisha (the wife of the Prophet) used to say: "When (the Verse): 'They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,' was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces."

Hadith - Abu Dawud, Narrated Umm Salamah, Ummul Mu'minin

When the verse "That they should cast their outer garments over their persons" was revealed, the women of Ansar came out as if they had crows over their heads by wearing outer garments.

Allaah, The Sublime, The Exalted says: {Tell the Believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts).That is purer for them. Verily, Allaah is All Aware of what they do. And tell the Believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparnt, and to draw their Khumaar all over their Juyoob (5) (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms)...} (The Noble Qur'an: Surah 24 Ayat 30-31)

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