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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be disturbed and angry by what it says about women in the bible

109 replies

Kayugaduck · 11/08/2009 00:19

I am making a concerted effort to read the bible (my dd has been given a good copy as a primary school leaver's present.) I can't believe what I'm reading. Starting from the beginning, Genesis. Talk of son after son being born, talk of women being punished for ever more by having pain in labour. I mean, come on! There is even the rape of Dinah.

I am horrified and shocked at what I'm reading and deeply disturbed.

Why is there no mention of the dinosaurs? It all sounds so cruel, farfetched and untrue. How are we supposed to believe in this?

I do feel spiritual however and am in awe of Life, nature etc but disagree that man should rule over all other lifeforms. Or that man should rule over his wife!

OP posts:
choosyfloosy · 11/08/2009 10:09

I'm not laughing. and i'm not laughing at Christians or Jews, i'm struggling with the holy writings that underpin those religions. most religious people i know are a lot better than the writings, and it is mysterious to me that such great people can genuinely find inspiration from them. That must be God, I guess.

morningpaper · 11/08/2009 10:15

Very different times, choosy... I mean look at the Great King David!

AIBU to think that my husband shouldn't have 14,000 wives?

Ninkynork · 11/08/2009 10:17

I love the bit about the apple. "The woman that you made told me to!" (paraphrase obv)

Talk about a man's penchant for passing the buck!

TAFKAtheUrbanDryad · 11/08/2009 10:32

Oh daftpunk, do shut up.

There's a love.

ZZZenAgain · 11/08/2009 10:32

What is so special about the old testament IMO, and makes it worth reading through and knowing, is how it stands apart as the incredibly human, warts and all story of how one group of people, at times dragging their heels, at times with full fervour gradually got to know God and he gradually revealed more and more of himself to them. It is very human, how people rant and rail and fall short of what they wanted to do. How some people are called once and give up every bit of security they have, take a huge risk and do what is asked of them, how others receive any number of blessings from God and yet prove themselves unfaithful. This is a real childbirth with all the struggles and pain and a relationship is being built up between God and man that was previously as far as we know, not there.

It's not all a hugely entertaining read. Numbers someone mentioned in particular but there are other parts where I think What exactly is this all about (and even: why not leave this bit out?).

You have to keep in mind it wasn't composed as a carefully constructed whole but after a long passage of time where the Bible was essentially being passed on verbally from one generation to another, it was eventually written down. It reflects the cultures and the times in which these things were experienced, the manner in which they were then understood, and the way these things were considered presumably at the time it was actually written down.

I would read it with a study guide. Read the guide on the chapter, then read the chapter. If I were you, I would approach the nice vicar, ask if you could have a talk about the Bible, you're finding it uncomfortable reading for the reasons you've said. Don't think he never felt the same or has never encountered your feelings. He's bound to have a book or two he'd lend you and I'm sure he'd be willing to talk through the things that are angering you.

ZZZenAgain · 11/08/2009 10:39

maybe we should keep in mind too that the Old Testament as we call it is the holy book of the Jews and some of the scathing comments about religious writings we essentially don't really understand because we don't have the context and it is not our living faith could be seen as extremely offensive by Jews themselves.

bleh · 11/08/2009 10:49

I agree with ZZZen, that it does show how flawed humans are. One of the greatest JEwish leaders (Moses) was not allowed to enter the Holy Land because of his flaws. King Daivd (another great) had the husband of the woman he fancied killed.

And yes, as a Jew it is really offensive when people go "ha ha, it's all rubbish, I mean look, if we followed it we wouldn't be able to eat prawns". Ah, yes, lots of people do follow it and don't eat prawns as a result. Also, you're reading a translation and you miss a LOT, especially if you are not reading any commentary or really engaging mentally, just reading as if it was a novel.

flatcapandpearls · 11/08/2009 10:58

Inspired by this thread I had a read of my Bible this morning.

My favourite book is the book of Hosea, in which God's relationship with his people is compared to that of a loving if frustrated parent or a scorned lover. As a parent or anyone who has loved and been let down it is incredibly moving.

I would like to think that even if I were not religious I would not call God a wanker

proverbial · 11/08/2009 11:30

DAFTPUNK, I don;t really think you in particular hae any right to call out other people for offensie or biased thread starting...come off it now!

Morloth · 11/08/2009 11:42

Christianity is a patriarchal religion, as is Islam and Judaism (pretty much all of them I think? Its cause men have too much time on their hands).

It is the way it is, if you don't like it don't read their holy books and don't follow the religion.

This works well for me.

I agree a little with daftpunk it does amuse me that people like to slag off the Christians but stop short of doing it to other more "vocal" religions, safe targets and all that.

SolidGoldBrass · 11/08/2009 11:45

ALL the main world religions are full of woman-hating and racist bullshit. That's a big part of what they are for - social control. Effective control of large groups of people only really works when you have a group on the inside and a group on the outside, the scapegoats, the ;other; because you control the 'inside' group by threatening them with banishment to outsider status. Men who are keen on the Abrahamic religions in particular are all fucking inadequates who can't operate on a level playing field, they have to keep reminding themselves that they have an inherent 'special' status, they may be thick, ugly and relatively broke but they can feel superior to women and the men of other ethnic groups.

Morloth · 11/08/2009 11:45

NinkyNork I like the Jezebel(?) story where her husband is whining about something so she goes off and gets the job done. You can just imagine her slamming down the cup of tea (or whatever), stomping off and saying "Oh for fuck's sake, I will just go and do it shall I? Will that shut you up?". THEN the bugger whines about it anyway.

Ninkynork · 11/08/2009 11:51

That's a good one

Lot of truth in the Bible.

TAFKAtheUrbanDryad · 11/08/2009 11:52

I'm not seeing anyone on here slagging off Christians. We're saying that their holy book is misogynistic and a bit mad. I have the greatest of respect for Christians. I was one, once.

Oh, and Christians are such easy targets.

More easy targets. Just for daftpunk. My personal favourite.

Christians are far from easy targets, especially in the US, where they like to go kerblooey with a 12 gauge as much as the next lunatic.

Morloth · 11/08/2009 12:06

I remember being in Sunday School and arguing with the teacher about the Jesus/Martha story when he said basically "Don't worry about the housework, come and sit with me."

I asked who was going to do it then? Someone was going to have to do it, and it was probably going to be Martha, I didn't see Jesus saying, come and sit and then we will sort it out. NOOOOO poor old bloody Martha was going have to do it later along with all the other stuff that she had to do then as well.

I wasn't very popular at Sunday school .

BitOfFun · 11/08/2009 12:09

pmsl at the dinosaur reference...perhaps there is a missing chapter somewhere?

TAFKAtheUrbanDryad · 11/08/2009 12:27

Nah, the dinosaur remains were put there to test devout Christians. The earth is only about 10,000 years old, didn't you know?

daftpunk · 11/08/2009 12:33

TAFK..

why do you want to shut me up..?....do i annoy you?

JoesMummy09 · 11/08/2009 12:36

I don't as a rule poke fun at people's religious superstitions beliefs but I think Creationists are fair game.

Just do a quick google...

TAFKAtheUrbanDryad · 11/08/2009 12:38

DP. I would not give you the satisfaction, hun.

daftpunk · 11/08/2009 12:40

ha ha ha..

you'll miss me when i'm gone

x x

colditz · 11/08/2009 12:58

I have an interestng idea about the seemingly bizarre 'food rules' in many older religious texts.

Many animals in those days were unknown quantities when it came to consumption. They weren't referred to as 'unclean' for nothing.

BBoth pigs and rabbits eat their own poo. PPrawns and other shellfish eat all SORTS of tthings.

The centre of the religions that have these or similar 'food rules' is in a HOT COUNTRY, where sanitation would have been very difficult until very recently. until freezers were in common use in this country, eeven we didn't eat pork in the summer. And rabbits, actually, are not indiginous to BBritain, they are native to hotter climes... and my god do they stink when you gut them,.

I think the seemingly bizarre food rules were put into place to protect the general population from food poisoning actually.

pointydog · 11/08/2009 13:14

colditz! Have you been away or under a different name?

colditz · 11/08/2009 13:16

I have been AWAY.

I'm at my boyfriend's house, on his laptop.

Actually, I'm not only ON hislaptop, I'm BINGING on hislaptop, having had no internet for so long. I have five browsers open and am considering picking a fight.

pointydog · 11/08/2009 13:19

You are very strident in your use of caps today