to be disturbed and angry by what it says about women in the bible

[Kayugaduck]

I am making a concerted effort to read the bible (my dd has been given a good copy as a primary school leaver's present.) I can't believe what I'm reading. Starting from the beginning, Genesis. Talk of son after son being born, talk of women being punished for ever more by having pain in labour. I mean, come on! There is even the rape of Dinah.

I am horrified and shocked at what I'm reading and deeply disturbed.

Why is there no mention of the dinosaurs? It all sounds so cruel, farfetched and untrue. How are we supposed to believe in this?

I do feel spiritual however and am in awe of Life, nature etc but disagree that man should rule over all other lifeforms. Or that man should rule over his wife!

[FAQtothefuture]

of God created man and woman in his image

"7So God created humans to be like himself; he made men and women."

" So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them."

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

'man' being the term used for human - not just for the male 'man'.

[JoesMummy09]

Kayugaduck Can I ask: before you picked up the Bible were you a Christian?

I have been thinking about women in the Bible and I have come up with Ruth as a positive role model.

Yes, there are bad women, like Jezebel and Delilah, but you have to remember the Bible was written in a different age.

Women did not have the same standing in society as men. It's also anti-gay and zenephobic (IMHO)in parts.

Personally I can't believe the majority of what's written in it to be true. Some is historical fact - events that really did happen are reported. However, the spiritual aspect is not something I believe in.

Read for education if you are not religious. If you are, then I would urge you to go to a Bible study class to get different prespectives on the text without ruining your faith.

[JoesMummy09]

sorry, meant xenophobic obviously

Time for bed...

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

Kayugaduck chill out on the representations of women. This is an Ooooold book, women have been treated awfully throughout history, it being the bible doesn't make it immune from that. After all, whether you are Christian or not, the bible was still written by people. This is unlike the Qu'ran which (supposedly) is the literal word of God through Mohammed. Did you expect it to be all sweetness and light? If you are looking for some spiritual guidance you could do worse than read the new testament, but you couldn't do much worse than the old testament.

Oh and read the Qu'ran if you want - but you won't find any reference to women dressing as tents. Burqas are a cultural phenomenon, not a religious one.

[sockmonkey]

There are some really good women in the Bible...you just haven't got to them yet!
Esther basically saved the Jewish nation - a proper hero! She is one of my favourites.

If you look they are there...maybe reading cover to cover isn't the best way, but good luck with it.

I often think that all the great men/prophets in the Bible had Mothers....men can't "begat" on their own can they. And as Mum's genreally do the raising of the children, they are the silent heroes, just like mothers today.

[spokette]

Esther, Ruth, Deborah, Naomi, to name but a few are iconic women in the bible.

If you rail against the bible wrt to the treatment of women, then you are wasting your energy. It was representative of the time and as someone said earlier, it is not even 100 years since women have had the right to vote in the UK. Plus, if everything was so wonderful now, why do we still need laws to protect women from discrimination in the workplace?

The OP needs to read the bible with perspective, context and understanding and quit trying to provoke inappropriate and misguided outrage.

[daizydoo]

FAQ how about The Message for your uncles funeral? Sorry for your loss

[TrinityRhinoIsInDetention]

sorry for your loss FAQ

dont be deeply disturbed Kayugaduck
just stop reading it
its an alright fairytale but....

[lou031205]

"There needs to be a new bible from a womens' perspective starting with the power and awe of women being given the ability to reproduce and a new era whereby women are treated properly."

OP - you haven't got there yet.

"Eve will be forever remembered for her part of the creating the first sin on earth but she also received the first promise of the Messiah. (Savior)

Esther was a beautiful Jewish maiden who was placed by God in the unlikely position of risking her life to courageously save the entire nation of Israel.

Deborah was a strong-minded and unique woman in Old Testament times. Besides the usual role as wife, she was a prophetess, warrior and Judge of Israel.

Mary of Nazareth, who was given the honor of giving birth to Jesus, risked her life when she humbly accepted the frightening responsibility of an "out-of-wedlock" pregnancy.

Mary the Magdalene was delivered of seven demons and went on to join other women in ministering to Jesus? needs. She recognized his Deity even before some of his male disciples.

Lydia was a successful businesswoman when few women had personal income. She was taught by Paul and is thought to be the first in Europe to follow Jesus." www.bellaonline.com/articles/art17680.asp

Read Proverbs 31:10-31 - It talks of a wife of noble character. It honours great women.

[GetOrfMoiLand]

Absolutelt PSML at this thread:

"Why is there no mention of the dinosaurs?"

"How women end up walking tents in the name of religion instead of men being blinkered like carthorses beats me though."

"There needs to be a new bible from a womens' perspective starting with the power and awe of women being given the ability to reproduce and a new era whereby women are treated properly"

Come on, this has got to be a wind up.

[TrinityRhinoIsInDetention]

I'm with you woozlet

[MoonIsATiredSlayer]

I think this is a wind up to.

[TakeLovingChances]

Old Testament was written before Christ came to earth. Thus OT is about culture of that time, which to us in lovely comfy cosy 21st century UK seems pretty mad.

If you look at NT when Christ is there it is a lot more accessible for both genders to feel that it's speaking to them.

I enjoy the OT and learn a lot from it, but I agree that there are some pretty crazy things being talked about that they got up to.

However, Christ came to earth to right a lot of the wrongs that people had been living in OT times. He knew that God's message and life was for all people and wanted to show that.

Read Song of Songs in OT, (can be referred to also as Song of Solomon). It is a love story between a man and the women he fancies/loves. If the Bible was as disgusting as a lot of people think, then why on earth would that book (SoS) be there?

You have every right to be disturbed and angry at what the Bible says about women. But my advice is to read a Bible reading aid at the same time to learn the historical context it was meant to be read along with.

It is such a HUGE book that a reading aid really is the only way to go!

[choosyfloosy]

Never mind the Old Testament - i find reading the Gospels absolutely chilling and the letters of St Paul no walk in the park either.

Although I must be honest - I thought the story of Eve might have been a vague comfort in the days before anaesthetics - shellshocked after childbirth, mothers might at least think there was some reason for the pain, which some other woman had been responsible for. I just have to think it's an awful downside of evolution which was not much comfort in the first weeks.

[lucysnowe]

Oh ffs it's only the fundies who think the Bible is the infallible word of God. The rest of Christianity has understood as a mixture of history, mythology and parable since pretty much the beginning.

Try Ruth and Boaz, it's a bit chick-litty. And Judith. And what lou and FAQ said.

[GetOrfMoiLand]

Think OP is having a larf, in light of all Harriet Harman/Misogyny threads flying around at the mo.

[TheHeathenOfSuburbia]

Well, the bible is a collection of books by different authors over a long time period. Some of them shit on women more than others, but mostly the female role is to shut up, bear children and be raped occasionally.

Wait till you get to the bit about conquering cities and slaughtering every living creature inside.

Nice. Spiritual.

[daftpunk]

this is a wind-up....how funny, lets take the piss out of christians..

oh, and if you're really worried about the treatment of women...put the bible down and see what's happening around you..

what an idiot.

[GetOrfMoiLand]

Either a wind up or she is not the brightest pixie in the forest.

[choosyfloosy]

To be honest, the Old Testament shows what happens when women's ability to conceive is held up and all but worshipped... it very rapidly becomes the only thing that matters about them. Barren women are a complete waste of space and in despair. If they pray hard enough they may be rewarded, or if they take some desperate action like getting their husbands to shag the help, they can get some respect.

Esther's great... except what happened to Vashti? It's a bit of a turnoff tbh.

And women like Rebecca.. what kind of a roasting would she get on AIBU?

And what about Zipporah circumcising her son with a FLINT?

And Noah's daughters getting him pissed so that they could conceive by him.

In the New Testament, you do actually get women appearing who are respected for themselves rather than their conceptual or domestic ability. That, to be fair, is radical, at least for the time.

[TAFKAtheUrbanDryad]

I call troll.

She has a point though.

[LetThemEatCake]

I quite like the fact that woman is shown, from the get-go, to be 1000x smarter than men (and thus feared, which is why they get denigrated)

Take the infamous apple incident. How many paragraphs of convincing does it take before that serpent can prevail upon Eve to take a bite??

And then when we get to Adam: "And Eve said "eat the apple, so he did"

Not much convincing needed!!!

It's the same in any mythical construct - look at the Greeks - Hera is about the only person that zeus is scared of!

[daftpunk]

you know in the two years i've been here, i've seen so many threads like this, "lets have a laugh at the christians".....i may have missed it,...but i don't think i've seen one about muslims....

how many other religions are there people could have a laugh at..?

[morningpaper]

I agree with the poster who is a fan of the Jerusalem Bible - it's a nice translation.

Genesis is the first of 66 of the Biblical 'books' and is made up of lots of very ancient texts from around 3-4 thousand years ago (IIRC, which I may not)

It's bloody OLD, and yes, women have had a very shit deal throughout history. This should make us very grateful for being born in this day and age.

If you are after something more spiritual then the psalms can be nice (if you skim the violent bits) or the Song of Solomon. The book of Revelation is fun if you are into mushroom-toting conspiracy writing.

The Koran is also very lovely and inspirational in parts so yes, why not try that too?