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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that a woman can't consent to sex if she is drunk

99 replies

suedoenym · 31/07/2009 22:57

Is it wrong for a man to have sex with their partner if she is so drunk that she can't walk and has to be carried to the bedroom?

OP posts:
Original poster
suedoenym · 01/08/2009 20:37

No - not just a straightforward shag. More was involved that I wouldn't normally do - wouldn't describe any of it as particularly "loving". I'm not a prude but imo it was stuff that's best left to pornos! I'm just going over things in my head cos he's away for the weekend and I've got a chance to think about what to do next...

OP posts:
BonsoirAnna · 01/08/2009 20:46

It's wrong for the woman to have got herself into that drunken state in the first place - women should learn to take better care of themselves, so that they can be in control of what happens to them. If you are so drunk that you cannot walk, all sorts of bad things (not just non-consensual sex) are more likely to happen to you - robbery, assault, getting run over - quite apart from the long-term health damage that you do to yourself from drinking too much.

MaryMotherOfCheeses · 01/08/2009 20:50

So Anna, it was her fault?

Agreed, being that drunk isn't a good idea but that kind of comment here is really neither helpful nor informative.

MotherPi · 01/08/2009 20:50

Theoretically true, BonsoirAnna, but not massively helpful.

dittany · 01/08/2009 20:50

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CrushWithEyeliner · 01/08/2009 20:52

That sounds sick. I would not be with a guy who did what he wanted with my semi-concious body for HOURS, photographed it and told me all about it afterwards, saying I was up for it . That is just awful I am not surprised in the least you are still thinking of it.

It really doesn't matter that he did this only "once".

BonsoirAnna · 01/08/2009 20:54

Surely the OP also had a choice about her own behaviour? She wasn't forced to get drunk.

Best to stay in control so that bad things are less likely to happen! I think that's the best lesson to draw from this experience, and then to move on and turn the page.

MaryMotherOfCheeses · 01/08/2009 20:57

Oh fgs, being drunk does not justify rape. Get real Anna.

The greater blame here lies with the sober man who was capable of making choices and relished the opportunity. Took photos. Being drunk does not excuse that.

wannaBe · 01/08/2009 20:57

tbh I think this is really difficult. Because on the one hand I think it's wrong and horrible and I would feel deeply uncomfortable about it - esp considering your dp was sobour.

But on the other hand, lots of people (not just women obviously) do lose all their inhibitions when they are drunk and are then "up for" anything, iyswim, things they would never even consider when they're sobour. Is it possible that once you got to bed, you did actually indicate that you would be up for sex?

I don't like the idea of a man potentially taking advantage of a woman in that state any more than anyone else. But equally, I don't think that we should consider that any woman who is drunk suddenly has no responsibility for her actions, iyswim.

K999 · 01/08/2009 20:59

BonsoirAnna...its views like your that make conviction for rape very difficult in this country....it is irrelevant if she was drunk...what matters is consent.....although I do know that if the man genuinley believes that consent has been given (!!) then it is almost impossible to get a conviction....

dittany · 01/08/2009 21:00

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dittany · 01/08/2009 21:00

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DandyLioness · 01/08/2009 21:02

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thesouthsbelle · 01/08/2009 21:05

no she wasn't forced, but on the other hand had her partner been any sort of decent man he would have carried her in taken her shoes off and tucked her up in bed, holding her hair back whilst she puked over the side of the bed. He certainly wouldn't have sex with someone who was so comatosed she was in essence just laying there while he had his jollys doing things which he knew she prob wouldn't consent to under normal circs.

so yes on one hand we shouldn't get drunk etc etc, when one's going home to a partner the last thing we expect it for that to happen - no matter HOW drunk you are!

cherryblossoms · 01/08/2009 21:06

suedonym - it's an awful thing to have come to terms with. I'm amazed you have. If you can do that, then you CAN leave.

I have no idea if the rest of your relationship is bad but ... hmmm ... and the fact he seems to use the kids, and the threat of him "taking" them, to coerce you to stay just makes me think hmmm again.

Get in touch with women's aid - it's worth a phone call. I think it's unlikely residency would be awarded to your dh - but they're a good place to have that conversation with.

And the fact you're saying that you think having a bad relationship is your fault makes me think counselling is a good idea. Counselling is so hard to come by free - and you have to wait ages on the NHS - but I think it would really help you.

BonsoirAnna · 01/08/2009 21:07

My morality is "first take care of myself". That is the most important lesson to learn in order to keep safe in life.

I hate the "victim mentality" on this thread.

wannaBe · 01/08/2009 21:08

so dittany you are saying that a woman who is drunk is not able to consent to sex?

What about the thread last week about the man who got drunk and ended up being taken advantage of by another woman? that is surely no different?

I agree that taking advantage of anyone who is drunk is abhorrent. But I think that one is on very shaky ground when starting to say that someone who is drunk is not responsible for their actions. Where do you draw the line, if a drunk person commits a crime should they be absolved because they were drunk and unable to rationalize what they were doing?

thesouthsbelle · 01/08/2009 21:08

yes it is I agree with that take care of ones self, (when out with the girls etc) however it's again the point that if you're going home to your partner you assume and trust that you will be safe - if you don't feel this way then there's something wrong within the relationship.

dittany · 01/08/2009 21:09

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BonsoirAnna · 01/08/2009 21:10

The very first person anyone needs to love is him or herself.

skihorse · 01/08/2009 21:11

10 years ago I went out on a Saturday night with a group of friends. I don't know if I had sex with one of the lads or not. I was absolutely shit-faced and I was snogging him in the pub. Did we have full sex? I have no idea, I know that our fumblings continued outside the pub - my next memory is of being in a nightclub hours later. Did he rape me? Hell no, I was a shitfaced arsehole who was all over him - in fact I was probably begging him to fuck me.

Whilst I do believe this is a very grey area, I do believe that women are crying "rape" when it's not rape. Being pissed and horny does not make your partner du jour a rapist.

One of my best friends is a policewoman and has to deal with this shit all the time - and no, it doesn't help the female cause or genuine rape victims.

cherryblossoms · 01/08/2009 21:12

suedoenym - I think your thread has branched.

On the one hand you posted a question in AIBU - and it's reasonable and right that people wish to debate that.

On the other hand, i sense (I could be wrong) that this is also going more towards a questioning about your relationship, where you might be going there and other issues in said relationship.

For pursuit of the latter, you might want to re-post in "Relationships".

MaryMotherOfCheeses · 01/08/2009 21:14

Agreed it's a grey area and proof is difficult to come by.

However, I think we need to stick with this case and the OP, and how she feels about the relationship as a whole. Becuase if she says the whole relationship is "shitty" then that's a different matter.

DandyLioness · 01/08/2009 21:14

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CloudDragon · 01/08/2009 21:15

Sue - I'm sorry he treated you so badly. That was a despicable thing to do to you and whether or not it is rape is definately classed as domestic abuse.

I would be surprised if a court would give him custody if they were made aware of his actions.

I once saw a programme about how on porn sites there is often an area for videos of very drunk girls being raped/having unconscenual sex and is becoming a really common thing in the USA. It is sickening.

You need to gather up your strength and leave this man. You will get lots of advice and support here.

hope you are OK.