To be horrified that you can get homepathic treatments on the NHS

[brightonlad]

It seems extraordinary that with the NHS experiencing major funding problems and people being turned down for treatments on the grounds of cost that we're paying for people to have this kind of therapy.
If you read the theory behind it it's obviously bogus and the results of all the trials that have been done have consistently shown it to be no better than placebo.
The only way to justify it that I can see is as a form of faith healing and I wouldn't expect my GP to tell me to see my Priest least of all make a generous donation to the roof fund.

I mean any form of remedy which is kinder to the body (as in no side effects).

The word "natural" refers to all things "from nature". Not rocket science.

If water has a memory, I may never drink again. I shudder to think how many kidneys our drinking water has been through.

I'm intregued by the ".Ben Goldacre Oh dear" comment. Whats the problem wth someone who seeks to explain the actual science behind the nonsense panic-mongering supplied by the media?

Ben Goldacre, pffft.

Some good rational arguments there. So I'll just add..homeopathy, yawn and boo. Is that what passes for intelligent debate?

well, it's very late...yawn..

Am worried now in case the NI study I've mentioned doesn't involve homeopathy - thought it did when I posted on this thread but am now losing confidence in my memory!

Anyway, chegirl makes a very good point about cancer. Many cancer hospitals use complementary medicine, including homeopathy in some cases, to support patients suffering from the severe effects of the disease itself and of treatment. I think the Christie in Manchester uses comp. med to treat needle phobia in chemotherapy patients, although I can't remember which therapies.

Also, IME homeopathy does have something like side effects. I went to see a homeopath about chronic migraine - similar story to Jemm, was very reluctant but thought sod it, at this point I'll try any mumbo jumbo, can't hurt.

Bizarrely, the sugar pills gave me the biggest dose of thrush I'd ever had. I was FURIOUS but the homoepath, irritatingly, was pleased because it showed the therapy was working.

The thrush had been caused by conventional medicine (one course of antibiotics, known side effect - GP didn't warn me - recurrent bouts of thrush as a result).

Thing is, after that initial reaction, I've never had thrush again - that's 12 years ago now.

One case study is not definitive scientific proof, of course. But in my case homeopathy certainly did have what I'd describe as side effects - immediate and dramatic and ultimately beneficial. Which suggests something biologically active is going on.

(Don't have migraines any more, either, but not sure exactly when they stopped - it's not as clearly linked with homeopathy in my memory but that could be because I was so darn cross about the thrush...)

it's called "humour".

Btw, criticisms of Ben Goldacre I've heard include picking on easy targets and being extremely rude and patronising to mothers over MMR. It's one thing to defend MMR, it's another to abuse and belittle people who are concerned instead of debating the issues. Sexism is never pretty either, I lost a lot of respect for him over that.

yes you are being completely unreasonable. I have had illness cured by homoeopathy and I know other people who have as well. Therefore you are wrong, brightonlad. May I suggest you take some anger management courses? your posts are a bit foaming at the mouth tbh.

On the NHS, natch.

lol Donnie

Interesting to think how much money the NHS should spend on treatments that might make people 'feel' better very hard to know where to draw the line.

why should we spend money on weight loss pills and gastric bands why not just ration food and share it out a bit more!!!

how effective would some complementary treatments be if they only had 10 minute appointment slots? how effective would GPs be if they had 30-45?

The depths of my memory tell me that the RLHH was receiving a lot of money from the Queen Mother I gather funding is being reviewed

FWIW at the moment all our GOS outpatient appointments are taking place in the RLHH (this has just reminded me how cross I was with dh who went in to see the Doc before I got there when he knew I was battling my way there on the tube)

I can understand why Ben Goldacre would be rude over MMR, it's an embarassing example of unscientific hysteria, the case has been proven so many times over now that there's very little point engaging with those who still don't accept it. The only problem is that Brighton is a town where the anti-mmr movement gained real traction which leaves healthy kids who have yet to be vaccinated at risk of the horrific consequences of measels, mumps and rubella.
The whole anti-mmr view point not only endangers the children of the parent but those around them. Deeply ignorant, but more critically, selfish and irresponsible.

1dilemma, a patient with chronic heart disease, diabetes or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease who feels better is a very big deal indeed.

It can be the difference between being able to get out of the house or being stuck indoors all day, every day, for instance.

Patient outcomes are crucial. Many drug trials measure proxy outcomes - drug X may be wonderful at reducing score Y on scale Z. But does it actually do anything for the patient? That's why patient outcome measures - does the patient feel better, are they able to take part in more daily activity, etc. etc. etc., are so important.

brightonlad - calling mothers stupid is patronising, rude and will do absolutely nothing to assuage any concerns. It is more likely to damage uptake of MMR. Might make you the person doing it feel big and clever, but does fuck all for children or medical science.

Some people have entirely serious and well-researched reasons for not accepting MMR. Some of those people even have PhDs in fields that mean they can understand and assess research...

so, brightonlad....what would you say to all the individuals who claim to have had various illnesses or conditions cured by homoeopathic means? are you calling them liars?

yes well, on a more serious note, I have a friend whose son was vaccine damaged. Try suggesting to her that she's "embarrasing or hysterical".

I think you are maybe on a wind-up, no?

It's his first post...

Maybe we should ignore now. Seems a bit trolly to me.

If it works, it's medicine. If it doesn't, it's quackery. "Alternative" medicine doesn't need to exist as a genre.

odd, as his profile claims he joined in 2008.

donnie

Maybe there is no point in research then, we could just ask people what they think helped, or what they think caused their illness. That would be a lot easier than objectively measuring outcomes.

In a nutshell, Unquietdad

That's an awful lot of the NHS you've just condemned, UQD. I'm sure Gordon Brown and David Cameron would be very grateful if you could just point out which bits don't work - given the budgets will have to be slashed by 20% or something from 2011...

Seriously, docs of my acquaintance are saying the NHS really does have to stop doing things like adenoids/tonsils/grommets. I can see their point, but equally know children who have benefited from all those things...

bigstripey - actually asking patients what they think caused their illness and what worked would be a very sensible approach.