...to think that a psychotherapist should not say...

[echobutnobunnymen]

'Perhaps there is something in you that can't take help'....when I have waited over a year for an appointment with her.. well an appointment with anyone actually...in the desperate hope that I will be helped to stop having suicidal thoughts.

'Well we all have personality disorders'....when I say that I am not sure about group therapy with people with personality disorders, as a lifetime of people with PDs are the reason I am in this mess in the first place.

'Well the best thing to think is 'water off a duck's back' ' ......about my abusive family and husband.

'Well what do you expect? You are going through a divorce and you have three teenagers?'...

'We all have to look within ourselves to see what part we play in our personalities...'

'Labels aren't helpful'

There's more ...but my question is...

Is it usual for a psychotherapist to blame a victim? As that is how I feel after having a half-hour session with this woman today.

What do psychotherapists actually do?

All advice gratefully received and if I am being unreasonable in expecting actual help to improve my mental state then I am happy to be told so.

And does three days a week intensive basket weaving cure anything?

Thanks

Have you got her through the community mental health team assessment?
If so,did someone come out to assess you?
In that set up,there is a file on you and the team discuss you as needed,so go back and ask for a reassessment.
Also,the counsellors themselves have supervisors who advise them without knowing your name,who are not part of the team.
So go back to the person who assessed you if you can,and say can you have someone trained in child abuse OR go back to your GP,say the counsellor was a bit challenging and you are too fragile for that atm and can he refer you to psychiatry instead.

Sorry, have just read some posts since I wrote this. I see this is on the NHS. I believe that one of the aims of the first session of therapy is to try and understand the nature of someones difficulties and give them hope for the future that there are things that can help. It doesnt sound like this was achieved for you. How easy would it be for you to ask to see someone else?

Is it CBT therapy then? Although I know that the NHS do offer different types, CBT used to be the only one commonly available and it is quite combative - it is designed to challenge your preconceptions about yourself and your situation (and is in fact commonly used in drug/alcohol abuse therapy) and to jolt you into accepting responsibility for what is going on in your life, because only once you have accepted that the responsibility is yours and yours alone can you take control of the situation and do something about it.

It can be a very uncomfortable process and is designed to be quite quick - if it doesn't suit your situation then you might have to consider a different sort of process.

However - given that it is an NHS referral and you have waited so long for it, you perhaps should stick with it - it may surprise you.

Dandy...that's very interesting what you say about recreating family relationships and learning to react to them differently.

The session today was to assess me for group therapy. The unit I attended does group therapy.

If this is the aim of the group therapy, then why did she not explain this to me? She could see she was upsetting me, but did not adjust her style.

I say again..I am not a moaning-minnie woe-is -me type person....I don't expect to be given a hug and a cuddly toy at each session, but I am trying to understand her methodology.

I know that the therapy will be really hard on me. But i was taken aback at some of the things she said.

So does she run the group therapy?

Yes the community mental health team. They have been very bad at communicating with me, and have lost my file etc etc on several occasions.

Combative is not what I need right now...my whole life is one long battle...I need help to become normal!

I thought asking for some help to help myself WAS me taking responsibility for myself!!! I have always taken responsibility for myself, despite my family and my situation.

I have made a life against pretty grim odds, but I know I now need some help.

Yes she runs the group therapy.

So it would seem she did this on purpose.

Then you must communicate with them that this is not the right process for you and that you need something a little more empathic.

Btw, I wasn't suggesting that you hadn't taken responsibility for yourself - just saying that is the way CBT works.

I feel really cross for you for some reason!

I think you need guidance and understanding and someone who really knows what they are doing.

Is group therapy what you thought you were having?

Can you change to another member of the team/ask to be referred to psychiatry by your Gp?Have you got the confidence to do this?

I could see the value of group therapy if it were for survivors of abuse but I really feel the op knows she has problems and needs trust,understanding ,guidance and support to work through what has happened to her.

I have no idea what type of help I need! I have no idea about any of these therapies. I have just gone along to an appointment that was made for me by a CP I saw before Xmas who was supposed to be assessing me. I was sent to see her by my GP as I went to see him as I was suicidal.

I hope to god I don't have a PD. When I first realised this was what my family have I did think I might have one too. Maybe I do!!!

As far as I understand it , there are very few groups, and you just come to the top of the list. I don't think they pick a suitable group...perhaps the people they usually see have PDs. Perhaps I have a PD. And no-one has told me!

She spent half and hour with me. She made me feel even more terrible about myself, if that's possible lol! And then said she would make another appointment for me some time in September.

I am genuinely grateful for all these replies. Please don't worry about being harsh...

Well I feel really bad for you,you need someone wise and knowledgeable to help you.
Go back to the GP and see if there is another option with 1 to 1 or group therapy more specifically for child abuse.

Take care and sorry you didn't get more joy from today
xx

Echo - I don't think this is going to work well for you if your next appt isn't until September, especially if she has left you feeling worse! That seems just irresponsible.

can you get back in touch with the CPN? Or someone else in the mental health team? See if there are any alternatives for you.

Post with us tomorrow~you'll have a bit of support at least

And of course you haven't got a personality disorder!

Thankyou very much to all who have posted. Going to try to get some sleep now despite teenagers and their friends chatting 'quietly' downstairs lol !

Therapy is hard work and it is very painful to unwind years of damage and hurt. It's not surprising you felt anxious at finally getting to see someone professionally, and beginning to talk about things.

Alot of analysis is understanding how we perceive/interpret/react to things, recognising when our 'buttons' have been pushed causing a visceral reaction, and then consciously choosing to respond in a different way than our old patterns, so that a different (and hopefully better/healthier) result might be achieved.

At the next appointment, I think you need to tell her it felt as if she was 'blaming' you. She can help you understand why you interpreted her comments that way. It is not your fault, but is how you have been conditioned, and you need to become aware of that so you can start to imagine other ways of interpreting/reacting and then perhaps choose to hear things differently.

What did you want from her when you went yesterday? Were you hoping for sympathy? Sympathy may come into it, but sympathy won't solve psychological/emotional issues.

Explore a bit more why you reacted so angrily and defensively, and exactly why you feel such resistance to her group therapy suggestion. What if you decided to follow her lead, instead of resisting? What if you let her be the expert, instead of questioning her professional skills? What if you approached her as an ally who can help, instead of an enemy who will hurt you more? If you're accustomed to being hurt/messed about, it is not surprising that you perceive her in that way too.

She may be lousy and not the right analyst for you. But you haven't given her a chance yet really. You've already said you're in alot of emotional pain, and you sound very fearful/afraid. Focus on that, and on letting her help you, rather than wasting energy/sabotaging things with anger. Anger at her won't help you. Let her help you.

You mentioned earlier 'is 3 times a week enough'. Will you be seeing her 3 times a week? Was this specific woman recommended to you, or was she simply who you were given by the NHS?

Sorry so stream-of-consciousness and rambling....

I've been through CBT and then some schema therapy with a psychologist for OCD - and empathy and validation of my feelings were always part of treatment - alongside of course with setting me challenges to help reduce my problem behaviours. Of course I was asked some searching questions at time - but never in a way that left me feeling distressed or that the psych was anything other than honest or competenent.

I feel very uncomfortable indeed with the suggestion that fragile people at first appointment should be played "mind games" with, just to see if they are suitable for group therapy. Personally I would feel rather uncomfortable with most of the statements made that you quoted, they would make me want to run a mile.

Not sure what to advise re:group therapy. As if you start it and you find it unhelpful then you may be in a stronger position asking for something else than if you haven't tried it at all.

Hello Earlybird...love the name!

This was just someone who I was given by the NHS. I have no money so there is no way I can choose anyone.

I don't want sympathy, I do want help. I was angry, and she said she could see it. I was angry because she asked me why I was there and when I told her she treated my explanation with disdain. I didn't go into the session angry, although I am angry in day to day life, and I know that is one of my problems.

She was actually sympathetic, in that she kept saying 'poor you' and so on, but I don't want someone to say poor you on the one hand and then treat all the work I have done on myself over the past year to educate myself on what has happened to me as though it is ridiculous.

In fact i don't really want anyone to say poor you. I want constructive help to change my thinking and the way I feel.

Actually, she made me feel exactly the same as my abusers have made me feel. I have only just realised that.

The thing is, this is going to be hard. Everything worthwhile in life is. And rather like when you're spring cleaning, and it looks worse before it looks better, it is going to stir a lot of stuff up before you are able to put it back in a better place.

The first time I saw a counsellor (not the same I know but the nearest I can do) I left feeling like someone had put my head in a blender. But it was the right thing to do.

You and this person need to work together so when you do see her again I think you should tell her exactly how this has made you feel. But please don't give up after the first session - you've waited a long time for this.

As for the group therapy - you won't know until you try that, either. Give it a go. But if it really doesn't work for you, try someone or something else.

Hi Echo,

I am also feeling very cross on your behalf. Being "tough" with someone who has suicidal thoughts and has been brave enough to seek help for the first time is not helpful. Do you think you could go back to your GP, explain what happened, and ask what they would advise?

I once walked out of a (private) therapy session because the silly cow therapist kept saying "poor you" over and over again in the most insincere voice imaginable. I think that asking your GP for more referrals, or going back to the original therapy service and explaining what happened at the assessment, would make you feel more confident in the whole process.

It's important to recognise that there is no "one size fits all approach" that will benefit everyone when it comes to counselling/therapy. CBT and group therapy are routinely offered on the NHS because they are cheaper than other methods, and because they can have quick results, although not necessarily long-lasting. I think you should give this woman another go, and try the group therapy if you can manage it, but definitely be pushy (make yourself, even if you find it hard - we will all support you on here! ) in asking for one-on-one counselling too, if that's what you feel you need.

As others have said, it will be tough. But you have taken the first step by asking for help. Stick with it, and keep pushing for what you feel is right for you. And keep posting on here.

as a therapist I would disagree with givemesleep. Most psychotherapists train for a minimum of 4 years and the training is very intensive.
Echo it sounds to me as if this therapist may not be the best "fit" for you if she has made you react and feel this way.

IMHO therapy is never about blaming the client for things that have happened to them; however many approaches to therapy focus on the client taking responsibility for how they assimilate their experiences, how they deal with them and live with them, and ultimately facilitate the client being able to take control of their reactions to things in the future as well as being able to make the right decisions for themselves. All of this comes from understanding what makes you tick and identifying patterns in relationships often established in childhood etc as well as looking at ways of dealing with trauma etc and coping strategies.

There are some elements in what she said that tie in with these overall aims but I think the way you have both interacted makes it unlikely that a good relationship of trust will be established.

Some therapists do try to provoke a reaction but it doesn't sound like this was necessarily her aim - she has failed to connect with you emotionally from what you've said.

I would give it another go with a different therapist - I think from what you've said a Person-Centred terapist may be more appropriate as they would allow you to set the agenda and not take you into difficult territory until you wanted to go there.....all therapy has the capacity however to make you feel worse before you fel better - it just depends on how much emotion you invest in it and what you want to get out of it.

I do think that psychotherapy can be about understanding where one's responsibilities as an individual lie, and to learn to put aside those things for which one is or was not responsible and are of no benefit to one's present or future life, and to concentrate one's energies on those things for which one is responsible and which are useful. It's about moving forward in life productively.