to think parents shouldn't bring their child up vegetarian?

[Picante]

Unless for religious reasons.

Yes this is a thread about a thread but I think I was annoying too many people over there so I've started my very own for people to get annoyed with me here!

I just think it's mean. Meat is such a huge part of our culture and fair enough if you're old enough to decide that you don't want to kill animals... but children should be given all sorts of food in the early years, including meat, until they are old enough to make that decision for themselves!

piscesmoon - I watch the younger two (5 & 3) and not the 11 & 9 year old. I didn't make that clear! The 11 & 9 year old choose not to eat meat when out - they simply don't like the taste of it.

Bexbee - Are you saying you want to eat meat at a veggie's house? Or are you saying you can't eat meat at your own house when you invite veggies over? I'd have no problem with my friends eating meat with their meal if I was at their house. I won't be cooking meateaters meat when at my house.

I am not at all pushy with meateaters on this subject, but I have a few friends who frequently bring this subject up - we don't take the bait!

AliGrylls - surely everyone should be feeding their children properly veggie or not. Why pick on veggies about vitamin deficiencies? Pick on anyone whose children have a bad diet.

I've flirted with vegetarianism here and there and do enjoy a lot of vegetarian food and would probably usually choose it over the meat alternative. (My weakness is seafood though). I also strongly agree that in most cases children should eat what their parents are eating, and if parents are vegetarians then a child will also be a vegerarian at home by default.

What I do find questionable is when the DC is out of the family home and continues to have this parental preference foisted upon them. I have had 2-3 year old friends of DCs over and have been told by a parent 'he/she can't eat meat'. Fair enough if it's an allergy/intolerance or if I was likely to be feeding them a rancid steak or dog food or some other very poor quality meat which would make them ill. But I find it quite rude that I should be expected to accomodate what is essentially an emotional whim of the parents. I obviously do, but what would really happen if I didn't? Not a lot, I suspect.

I also object to the anthromorphism of our food and find it slightly unfair to expose DCs to any kind of guilt surrounding what they eat. As far as my 2 and 3 year old DCs are concerned, a carrot is as likely to have feelings as a turkey.

Anthropomorphism, even.

A carrot is likely to have feelings as a turkey, eh?

According to my pre-schoolers, yes.

okay, in terms of the no-guilt then (which i can totally understand - a child should not have to even conceptualise guilt). i've got an image of a trembling carrot

but i do not think vegetarianism is an "emotional whim" of the parents. surely any strongly held opinion in terms of upbringing of another child, should be catered for (so to speak, you know what i mean!)

i don't understand why you think it's rude to ask you to provide veggie food for their veggie children, if you've invited them over? it can be a pain or an inconvenience, yeah, but why is it rude?

lol I was going avoid this thread thinking it would full of the anti vegetarian drivel I've become accustomed too during my 23 years of being vegetarian.
It's great to see some many people poitive about a vegetarian diet! Thanks OP!

As for my DD she is pescatarian like her dad. DP was strongly in favour of her having fish in her diet.
Oh just remembered some of my family wittered on about DD being damaged by my veggie diet during my pregnancy. DD was born a very healthy 8lb 7oz!

'What I do find questionable is when the DC is out of the family home and continues to have this parental preference foisted upon them. I have had 2-3 year old friends of DCs over and have been told by a parent 'he/she can't eat meat'. '

This is what I disagree with entirely. Obviously they will have it at home but a 2-3 yr old isn't a vegetarian, they are merely the DCs of vegetarians and it is anyone's guess what they will choose when they are older, have tasted it and know the issues. Rigid control is going to make them anti. If I was a DC at a party and I had my mother saying I couldn't have a saugage unless it was a veggie sausage I would react against it as soon as possible.

likessleep, if you gave children meat when they had never had it then you would most likely make them ill. Veggies bringing meat into their diet need to do it slowly and quite carefully. My mil hid (actually quite successfully) meat in food while I was pregnant and staying with them for a week. It made me very very sick simply because I'm not used to eating it and my body didn't seem to be able to digest it properly. I didn't realise there was meat in the meal (she had gone to the effort of cooking me something quorn and hiding the meat in the the rest of the meal) so I'm sure it wasn't psychological. She only admitted it (to dp too, not even to me) when I was still being sick 12 hours later and she was worried about causing a miscarriage. And she thinks I should trust her to look after dd for ''a few weeks'' in Germany this summer when I will be in England!! (Do I win the my-mil-is-maddest competitions?)

hold on just when you think its safe to comment on a veggie thread likessleep comes on with the same old repetitive crap. You have no idea how boring and tedious comments like that get after 20 odd years! Change the record love!

In my understanding, likessleep, is fighting for the veterian corner ER, even though she is not a vegie herself.

elenor - why is my comment the same old repetitive crap?
i've been veggie for 18 years and started eating meat again last year. i don't understand what i've said so offensive?
that i think its okay for a parent to ask for veggie food for their child?
my comment of the lamb chop was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek
blimey.

We all 'foist' our preferences on our children when they are small, whether that's religion, lifestyle, food or anything else.

Don't get why some meat eaters are so horrified at the idea of having to prepare ONE meal for ONE person without meat or fish - do they seriously have meat at every single meal? Extremely bad for your health, apart from anything else. And I can't believe there is anyone who can't manage to produce pasta with tomato sauce and cheese, or pizza without ham, or egg chips and baked beans or cheese on toast or 1001 other quick meals children are likely to eat!

thanks gorionine

Maybe ER meant gaga?

Your welcome It does happen to me to genuinly totally misunderstand a post as well so it might be the same for ER, edam might be right as well.

dragonrider i totally agree with you. i would never put meat into someone's meal if they are veggie. if i had veggie guests visiting, i would provide proper veggie food (to the point of using a tin foil 'fence' under the grill between meat and veggie / using a disposable barbie etc). i was saying in my previous post then yes, it can be a slight annoyance, say if you've considered / bought a meat meal, but that i didn't think it was rude. that people's preferences for how their kids are brought up should be respected.

Sorry, just going back a few posts to Chaya5738's post about babies dying because of vegan mothers.

I'm really surprised to hear this
a)because I have friends who breast fed successfully as vegans and didn't have any problems

b) because I have a friend who had to become vegan while breast feeding on her doctor's orders because her DS was allergic to cow's milk and he was being affected by the cow's milk protein via her breast milk and

c) because when I was breast feeding (as a veggie, not a vegan)I wasn't eating well (for various reasons) and lost a lot of weight and was really run down and I worried about the quality of my breast milk and I got some fantastic support on MN with lots of advice from very wise MNers about how studies have shown that even in famine situations where women are living on a subsistence diet, they still manage to successfully BF.

I've never heard of vitamin B16 btw.

"but i do not think vegetarianism is an "emotional whim" of the parents. surely any strongly held opinion in terms of upbringing of another child, should be catered for (so to speak, you know what i mean!)"

Hmm, ok, but if I took my DC to your house and said 'he only eats fair-trade food' would you not perhaps see it as a slight value judgement on your own purchasing choices? And would you not think 'does this child really have a personal objection to unfair trade in the developing world or is the parent simply trying imply that my own morals are objectionable and these must be amended if I wish to cater for their DC'?

(As an aside, in my weirdy Anthrolopology student days, I did actually attempt to only exist on Fairtrade foodstuffs when I went through a phase of deciding human suffering was something that should be addressed before animal suffering. It tapered off after about 2 weeks, as it was quite expensive and time-consuming and I realised I was ridiculously ill-informed on the issue).

Another reason I could never commit to vegetarianism myself is because it just seems the epitome of Western diet pampering. Not only do we have far too much food but we have so much choice that we can actually have morals about it. I guess that applies to any dietary choice though. I know that's a whole other thread.

"but i do not think vegetarianism is an "emotional whim" of the parents. surely any strongly held opinion in terms of upbringing of another child, should be catered for (so to speak, you know what i mean!)"

Hmm, ok, but if I took my DC to your house and said 'he only eats fair-trade food' would you not perhaps see it as a slight value judgement on your own purchasing choices? And would you not think 'does this child really have a personal objection to unfair trade in the developing world or is the parent simply trying imply that my own morals are objectionable and these must be amended if I wish to cater for their DC'?

(As an aside, in my weirdy Anthrolopology student days, I did actually attempt to only exist on Fairtrade foodstuffs when I went through a phase of deciding human suffering was something that should be addressed before animal suffering. It tapered off after about 2 weeks, as it was quite expensive and time-consuming and I realised I was ridiculously ill-informed on the issue).

Another reason I could never commit to vegetarianism myself is because it just seems the epitome of Western diet pampering. Not only do we have far too much food but we have so much choice that we can actually have morals about it. I guess that applies to any dietary choice though. I know that's a whole other thread.

Oops. Double post. Sorry.

OMG, I can't believe this has generated all these like, totally het up comments man, lighten up guys...there's a war going on out there...