to think parents shouldn't bring their child up vegetarian?

[Picante]

Unless for religious reasons.

Yes this is a thread about a thread but I think I was annoying too many people over there so I've started my very own for people to get annoyed with me here!

I just think it's mean. Meat is such a huge part of our culture and fair enough if you're old enough to decide that you don't want to kill animals... but children should be given all sorts of food in the early years, including meat, until they are old enough to make that decision for themselves!

YABCU. There are whole cultures out there who rarely if ever eat meat - should they introduce it? No.
Therefore it isn't a health issue.

Except in the case of strict vegans, where no dietary access to vitamin B12 is available, a vegetarian diet will supply all nutrient needs if carefully balanced.

Vegans should get Vit B12 shots from their GP to avoid B12 deficiency (although there was an apocryphal story about small DC of vegans not needing to worry too much about this due to their relatively insanitary habits - bowel bacteria can produce vit B12 but not so that we can reabsorb it in our bowels...)

I'm vegetarian but my 2 dc aren't. I'd love for them to be but want them to come to that informed decision by themselves at some stage when they are old enough to understand what it means.
My DH isn't vegetarian and my DC's nursery refused to make them meat & fish free lunches (vegetarianism is practically non-existent where we live), nor would they allow me to bring in a packed lunch for them (outside foos is banned - they can't be responsible for any food-poisoning incidents ).
Very rarely cook them meat or fish at home though and certainly don't think I'm mean in doing that. Quite the opposite - I think they're bloody lucky I care so much about what I put in their little growing bodies .

so OP - you have seen what I and others have got to say on the matter - where have you gone then ?

There is plenty of evidence that a vegeterian diet is healthier. Eating red meat regularly is associated with all sorts of conditions from obesity to cancer plus the ethical and environmental considerations so it's actually much more easy to say YABU to give your child a NON-veggie diet.

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/5698784/Being-a-vegetarian-can-cut-your-risk-of-cancer-by-a-ha lf-claim-scientists.html

I'm just catching up with all of this!

I'm allowed to have my own opinion and I've stated that. I admit that it's a bit silly cooking meat for your child when you're not eating it yourself but out of the home I still think they shouldn't be denied trying it.

Seems silly that we can't have a debate on here without vicious attacks... still I suppose that's Mumsnet.

Oh and I just want to state that it wasn't me who said anything about the appearance or health of veggie kids.

Picante - all 4 of my children have tasted a bit of meat outside the home, in most cases accidentally - apart from one time when someone at pre-school thought it would be funny to offer ds2 meat knowing we're veggie (I was furious). They all hate the taste. Ds1 was violently sick after he ate meat.

I have never preached to anyone about being veggie - dh & I have our reasons and it's up to anyone else what they choose to do.

I could easily argue that children shouldn't be fed meat until they are old enough to make that decision themselves.

If they want to eat meat when they are older that is up to them - I, however, will not cook it for them as I don't know how (have been veggie since 16) and I can't stand handling it or the smell of it cooking - hate meaty bbq smell from neighbours, it is so disgusting.

I think that the whole argument is silly! Parents bring up their DCs on what they eat themselves. When they are young they don't eat anywhere else-as they get older they are able to choose for themselves.e.g. My DH had a very boring diet as a DS, his mother had meals on set days of the week-there was no question of ever getting curry! He eats anything now, but I still wouldn't expect my MIL to cook a curry-why should we force our tastes on her? If she had brought him up as a vegetarian he would have been free when older to eat meat but I still wouldn't expect her to cook it.
Food is a cultural thing and you copy your parents. There is nothing wrong in that-it only becomes controlling if the parent tries to control food intake outside the home-e.g. hovering over the DC at a party to make sure he doesn't have a sausage roll. I think every parent on here has said that the DC will decide when older, which is the sensible course of action because the DC will choose for themselves eventually-despite the parent.

Where are the vicious attacks???

piscesmoon - I do hover over the younger two as I don't want them to eat a sausage roll .. I don't see that as controlling we just don't do meat. They would assume it was a veggie sausage roll.

Ds1 (11) went to a party the other day - everything was meat apart from crisps so he ate nothing. He could have eaten meat, but he doesn't like the idea of eating it as he is not used to it.

YABU

My DD is vegetarian (as am I) and I see argument other way round to you.

You say "fair enough if you're old enough to decide that you don't want to kill animals" but I say that I want her to be old enough to understand where meat comes from and to decide for herself that she's happy to eat dead animals.

Being veggie is a perfectly healthy option - if not healthier option than eating meat.

I don't get the argument that "meat is such a huge part of our culture"

We decided not to be so strick outside of the house and at parties. DS has on a few occasions picked up meat sausage rolls and taken a bite, or a ham sandwich, (we have never really talk him where meat comes from) taken a bite and decided he didn't like them on his own. That said, he doesn't like cheese too.

But can someone please direct me to these 'vicious' attacks??

Meat is only such a huge part of our culture becasue it became cheap to produce. With huge costs in the environment and animal suffering.

there's B12 in Marmite and other yeast products.

Picante, it's one thing to have an opinion, it's another to criticise people even after it has been pointed out that you are being inconsistent and there is rather more to it than your initial assumptions.

You deny your children all sorts of things other cultures consider food - blood and termites, I would imagine (unless you eat black pudding but that still leaves insects. Probably.).

Why do you reserve the right to condemn other people for doing exactly what you do - not feeding their children every single item that could possibly be considered food across all of human history and geography?

I might disapprove of some aspect of your parenting, but if you pointed out to me that your reasons are A, B and C things of which I wasn't aware, it'd be pretty daft not to at least consider changing my mind, wouldn't it?

Just read an earlier comment about veggie children being pale and thin

Actually, DD is pretty pale and thin but she's also perfectly healthy, a good weight, very tall, and extraordinarily bright. Not sure that eating meat would give her any more colour although it might give her more fat. Don't know. Not going to find out either!

I would say that it was controlling at the age of 11 schilke. If you set by example they will most likely follow and you have nothing to fear from a bit of experimention. I have vegan friends and their DS got a Saturday job at a butchers!(he used to bring home treats for the veggie cats who utterly adored him!!) It was a reaction for a few years, and then he went back to eating very little meat.
I think that a DC of 8 yrs is old enough to say that they wish to be a vegetarian and therefore a DC of 8 yrs is old enough to try a bacon sandwich if they wish. I am against any rigid control on diet-e.g. not having a McDonalds ever or having sweets banned. It is all counter productive IMO.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in my family. Out of three vegetarian sisters, two of us are raising our children as omnivores, one as vegetarians. Wonder whether the veggie children will want meat at some point, or whether my meat-eating niece and ds will turn veggie?

It is very good for your carbon footprint.

I guess it depends on whether the child is still getting a balanced diet with all the protein and iron he/she needs.

I used to work in criminal law and during my time I saw two babies die due to the mothers being vegans (which I know is different) and the baby not getting the right nutrients through breast milk (B16, I think was the vitamin that one in particular lacked). They were Christian Scientists so it complicated things (because they wouldn't allow the babies to have vitamin injections either) but it did make me realise how difficult it can be to give children the right balance of vitamins and how serious the consequences are if we don't.

Including meat in your dc diet doesn't necessarily make it balanced.

Excluding meat from your dc diet isn't depriving them (providing it offers a range of iron/B12 rich foods).

FGS, anyone who knows anything about food surely must appreciate that meat isn't necessary for balance. Having different foods which offer different nutrients is important.

Says someone who turned to meat after having DC / after being veggie for nearly 20 years.

My daughter didn't like meat as a baby but after she had spag bol at 2yrs old she was hooked. I have friends who are veggies but we don't talk about the food issue because I firmly believe we humans have evolved to eat meat & its just easier not to argue with some folks. I know I feel weak and listless after a while with no meat products. My hubby is mostly veggie (he says I've corrupted him) so when he cooks its usually veggie. Our diets are very different he can survive easily on cereal for breakfast, I need high protein and iron. I tried a proper veggie lifestyle for over a year and was chronically aenemic. Our biology shows how we've evolved to need meat specificaly raw meat. The usual cancer argument is due to the cooking process, or the additives ruining the wholesomeness of good fresh meat.

On a side note one of my pet peeves is when I go to a veggie friends house for dinner I eat the veggie dinner but when they come to mine I have to cook only veggie foodstuffs so as not to offend...

Whilst my parents were meat and fish eaters, both my brothers chose to become vegetarian from a young age (5 and 8 years?). They are tall, handsome intelligent, healthy, and as a result of their vegetarianism learnt to cook delicious meals if they wanted anything other than pasta with tomato sauce. But they did choose to be veggies, rather than having the choice made for them.
I'm sure my brothers would not allow their kids initially(if and when they have them) to eat meat or fish, but wouldn't object to them making their own mind up about it later.

Pennybubbly, where do you live? not allowing you to give a packed lunch to your own DC? how awful!

I don't disagree with bringing kids up to be veggies so long as it is done properly and with an understanding that one may be potentially causing vitamin deficiecies if it isn't.