To think MIL being judgemental and over-bearing about DC's baptism.

[Rollergirl1]

DH and I are not religious. DH's parents are practising catholics and DH was heavily involved in the church until he was a teenager (was an alter boy). I was christened when young but haven't gone to church since i was little. We had a civil ceremony when we got married. DD is due to start school in Sep 2010 and I have started looking at local schools. The two best schools in our area by a mile are the two local catholic schools. So we are now getting DD (3) and DS (1) baptised. And we are getting them baptised at PIL's local church despite it being 200 miles away from where we live. The reason that we are doing this is because local churches expect you to go to church regularly before they will consider baptising. So this is purely down to laziness and convenience. MIL knows the exact reason we are doing this and knows that we are not religious. She is making a big deal of it, arranging marquee for after the ceremony and inviting all their side of the family, etc. And I am happy for her to do so because she is doing us a favour. One of the godparents (my best friend)is unable to make it as they have other plans for that date. I wouldn't dream of making her change them as she knows this is not a big thing for us and we are really only doing for reasons cited above. Also my Mum won't be able to make as she is having a knee replacement the week before and won't even be able to walk. And she is not religious and not catholic. And it is happening 200 miles away. But my MIL is now saying that if my best friend can't come than i should ask someone else to be the godparent and has firmly stated that she thinks my mum should be there. I'm now getting stressed as I really don't want to make a big deal of this as we are only doing for the reason of schools but then think am I being unreasonable as MIL doing us a favour by sorting this out for us?

Catinthehat, do you mean the silly idiot pretended to be a lying cheating hypocrite to get a story for her husband?

I really really really (really) cannot understand why anyone would send their child to a religious school if they did not believe.

You would be sending your children everyday to listen to things you disagree with and have no feeling for. Its weird IMO.

Are church schools really that good?

I know parents do this and then even attend church for months on end to get into a school that is supposed to be better than the others in the area. I struggled with church and I am Christian. How the hell do you put up with it if you are sitting there thinking 'what a load of old toss' for an hour and a half every week (more if you are High Church).

I have never understood why people get married in church or get their kids baptised when they dont believe in God or go to church either.

Please note - I dont understand it, not that I think you are all going to hell or will get struck by lightening - just dont get it.

What have I missed about News International?

The reason I ask is that I wonder if it is anything intrinsically to do with their being "faith" schools or more to do with their general ethos of behaviour/work and their reputation.

(Baby, just have fun with the Advanced Search bit at top right)

ok what have I missed? What has gone over my head?

Our best schools are also faith schools, in the main. I am not sure why but they are not all middle class intake so I disagree with that idea.

The faith is not rammed down anyones throat, they are expected to join prayer in weekly assembly but the chapel operates during lunch hours and is optional.

The discipline is better than other schools near us but I am not sure that can be counted as a religious thing, they are more "academic" than other local schools, again not really a religious thing I don't think...

The ethos has some religious stuff in but is largly about caring attitude, community spirit, trying ones best etc. I attended one of the local faith schools, dd attends another. Neither of us have found/do find religion is a large part of school life.

Well, I doubt it's divine intervention if that's what you mean UQD

But you're going round in circles really. Why would a faith school have a different ethos of behaviour/work? etc...

If unquietdad ever got religion, I reckon the church/organisation in question should put out a massive press release. 'Hallelujah, we have SAVED the ungodly! A sinner repenteth. A lost lamb has returned to the fold etc. etc. etc.'

Some posters on the side of buses would look nice...

Don't all schools have fish on Friday?

I think it's not so much middle classness more parental involvement/aspiration/'niceness' and school ethos and general behaviour.

I think 'we' also need to recognise there is a huge gap between the desirable schools that are religious with consequent strict entry criteria and those that are simply religious maybe for historical reasons which have no religion based entry criteria. Obv. in this country mainly these will be C of E.
I think one of my semi-local schools which is religious still has places available in a borough which will be 180 places short come September.

Our local school is CofE and has no admission criteria based on evidence of faith.

Our local Catholic school also has a limited number of places available for non catholics.

QUite a number of girls I went to college with went through the local Catholic schools - it isn't like C0fE where you do prayers in assembly and go to church every so often - they were going to mass all the time. The religious aspect is much more embedded in the daily routine. If you don't beleive at all, I would think carefully about how you want your DC's spiritual education covered. You can hardly tell them it's all bollocks and then expect them to take it seriously at school - unless you are going to ask them to lie. I mean, "pretend."

edam - yes but they'd only say "we have PROBABLY saved the ubgodly"

Well, I am going to go against the majority opinion and say that I dont think the OP is being unreasonable.

If schools didn't make parents jump through hoops to enable them to send their kids there, then there would be no need for anyone to have their children baptised for reasons other than faith.

The best secondary schools in my town are CofE and Catholic respectively. Not only do you have to attend church but you also have to show that you do various community works, are a general good person and tree-hugger.

So, 2 parent families in villages where social functions resolves around the church, where the mother is a SAHM who has time to do charitable works all get their children in. And the single mothers on the local council estate don't. Because the various dioceses are different to actual county councils, a lot of the children at the CofE school in particular come from another county - so their parents don't even pay council tax to support that particular school ifswim whereas the local council tax payers have to send their kids to the worst school in town. When all is said and done, the selection procedures are designed to exclude the riff raff (that's my family, by the way) and get the rich kids in. It has nothing or little to do with religion.

BTW, my kids do not follow any religion in particular as DH is Muslim and I am Christian; we don't attend any church obviously, and I work FT, no time to attend committee meetings, do charitable things.

I bet all the posters describing the OP as hypocritical are church going middle Englanders who are all benefiting from these unfair snobbish selection procedure.

Sorry, don't want to offend but people who do not go to church regularly also have the right to a good education for their children. It's about bloody time this link between schools and churches was stopped and everyone had the right to attend the school of their choice without being forced to jump through hoops.

Sorry long post, feel strongly about this!

"I really really really (really) cannot understand why anyone would send their child to a religious school if they did not believe."

I don't understand why anyone would send their child to a religious school when the child does not believe.

Neither do I LBOF-it seems really odd!

'If schools didn't make parents jump through hoops to enable them to send their kids there, then there would be no need for anyone to have their children baptised for reasons other than faith.'

Schools don't make them do anything. A Catholic school is for Catholics-if you are not a Catholic and don't want to be, then you should look elsewhere. It seems very odd to me to say 'It is a good school, I don't believe in God and most specifically I don't want to worship in a Catholic way and yet I will pretend, to get a place, and then subject my DC to being brought up in the Catholic faith.

picesmoon I would be quite happy for my DCs to go to a catholic school if it was the best school in the area as I would know that I would balance out the catholic aspect of it at home if necesssary. I just think that it's hilarious that all these catholic parents are getting on their high horse about their children being educated in a catholic school when most children couldn't give 2 hoots about religion.

"I bet all the posters describing the OP as hypocritical are church going middle Englanders who are all benefiting from these unfair snobbish selection procedure."

well yes I am a church goer.

However I'm mostly certainly not a middle Englanders - and I've not benefited from any snobbish selection process.

Well actually I suppose I have - buying his house meant that I was guaranteed a place in the CoE schools as after children in care, and siblings, distance came next on the LEA admissions policy so I was first on that list........

As I said earlier - if it had been the outstanding non-church school in the other part of town that I had been offered I've have been equally as happy.

And I ask again - WHY are you complaining about the church schools - when obviously the government is doing sod all to sort of the "less desireable" schools in your area??? Turn those 2 church schols in Vonluntary controlled schools and guess what........

They'll still be a bugger to get into.

Tryharder, why would only those who are benefitting have this opinion? Why is it only people who go to church who can have this opinion? Does the ability to see hypocrisy get gifted to you at the church door? No? Thought not, I am not a church goer, I am not "middle england" and our faith school takes children from the catchment area regardless of anything. The only "faith" part of the entry is the certain number of places that are allocated to church goers - a small %age of the total intake.

I am perfectly able to see hypocrisy and call it if I see fit and I am a bit peeved at being lumped in a basket the way you have and dismissed as someone who cannot have an opinion because you think we cannot possibly understand how it is for the rest of you poor, hard done by people.

Just seen this, have not read whole thread so do not know if it has already been said but and I have some bad news for you....

You can have your fake baptism and get your baptism certificate BUT when it comes to getting your kids in to a church school you need your priest to sign forms to say you attend church regularly, so you are wasting your time and money on this if you are not going to attend church after, you will not get a school place,

I am not a church going Middle Englander, I am a agnostic Australian.

My DS actually DOES go to a Catholic School, I liked the ethos and I vaguely agree with the religion HOWEVER the school is aware that we are not Catholics, we do not attend church and that the boy is not baptised. It is however an independent school, so I guess the main criteria you have to fulfil is having the cash.

It is deeply disrespectful to stand in a church and lie about what you believe for ANY reason. It just isn't right and says quite a lot about a person's character that they would be willing to do so.

I repeat YUCK.

I wonder if Rollergirl1 has changed her mind yet?

LOL @ "the boy" Morloth

Oh, climb down off your high horse please Morloth. It's all very well for you when you can just throw enough cash at the place for it to not be an issue. And "liking the ethos and vaguely agreeing with the religion" is enough is it?

How many people do you think get married in church when they haven't set foot inside a church other than for other weddings? And what about funerals for that matter? What are your thoughts on them?

I've just been honest here. And I totally understand and expected the slating. I just want the best for my children. End of.

well Roller - as has been pointed out - even non-faith schools you often need dto have enough cash to throw at renting or buying the area local to the good schools.......