to challenge anyone to better this example of the heights of pushy parenting?

[BonsoirAnna]

Yesterday I was chatting to another mother from DD's French-English bilingual school on the bus. She has two daughters, one in DD's year, who will soon be 5, and another one three years above, who is 7.

This mother told me that during the summer holidays her 7 year old, who has been having private Chinese lessons for the past year (in addition to having an American nanny to teach her English), is being sent to stay, alone, for a fortnight with a Chinese family in China in order to practise the language.

keep up posie - it has to do with 'pushy' parents (or not in Asana's case)- it right there in the title .

Thanks for clarifying thedolly Like I said, the whole schooling issue is probably another thread in itself

And no, I did not spend every summer with people I didn't know. I spent a number of summers and half-terms with distant family friends that I didn't know, some with family I did know (UK, France, Germany, US, Brazil, and UAE to name a few). Either way, travelling alone at 6 upwards is not the worst thing in the world. Most airlines do an "Unaccompanied Minor" service so it's not like I had to make my way to and from passport control all by my lonesome. Plus, I usually had a lovely flight attendant looking out for me at both airports and on the plane so it wasn't like there was not an adult I could have approached if there was any problem

And KTNoo has summarised the issue pretty well. All because one person's 7 year old feels unable to undertake such a trip does not mean that others are the same.

I just think 7 is too young. Obviously children are different and some are very grown up etc but it's just too young. Interesting debate going on though. Asana it sounds like you were a very confident young woman who quite rightly stood up for herself in a difficult situation and that is quite brilliant, i don't think I would have had the nerve.

Which is where part of the problem lies - it surely depends on the child and their personality. Although i would imagine that this would be too much for most children at that age.

The whole culture difference and not being able to read any signs or anything bothers me - and that if you were going to europe for eg in an emergency you will easily find someone who speaks English - not so in china AFAIK.

Interesting too that there have been threads on here which indicate that most people would probably not put a 7yo on the train for a day out in London by themselves, and yet going to china for a fortnight seems to many on this thread to be perfectly normal.

I guess if you bring up your dcs without too much love and affection going away from you for two weeks they won't have so much to miss.

What this thread shows more than anything IMO is that what we think is 'the norm' for our children at any particular age is hugely culturally specific. In the West, we don't tend to let our children do anything on their own until they're in double figures. As Asana's posts prove, it's different where she is from (sorry I know it's an African country but not sure you said which?). In many 3rd world countries, children of 7 are looking after their younger siblings and/or working.

Most Western 7 YOs would be very unhappy if their parents made them do this. But perhaps these children have been brought up to relish independent experiences? Who knows?

I've spent a lot of time in China, I wasn't being insulting about the Chinese just siting the differences. My parents showed me the world and I waited until I was thirteen to travel alone.

I'm sure some Chinese don't stare, but it's not wrong for them to stare, which was my point. The Chinese spit too and sell live animals in their supermarkets which they kill without a thought for animal welfare in front of you. These things do not offend the Chinese. Likewise the British need to queue doesn't offend me!

No chips on my shoulder just thought you crowbarred in many unnecessary details about yourself in your post.

"In many 3rd world countries, children of 7 are looking after their younger siblings and/or working. "

No this is not a cultural feature of 3rd world countries, this is what poor people do. It would even happen in western countries if it's not for the fact that people on low incomes are supported by the government.

Yes I know that megapixels. But are you denying that the fact that there isn't a safetynet for people in poverty in those countries impacts on cultural norms? I think it's critical.

I understand your point about cultural differences. But my point is that not everyone in 3rd world countries live in poverty. I am from a 3wc and I didn't have to look after my younger sibling - we had nannies to do that, as we had maids for cooking/housework, a gardener for the garden and a chauffer for being driven about. And we weren't super rich either. The fact that there is no safety net impacts only the people in poverty. So I thought it was irrelevant to the family in the OP.

Perhaps it should read 'In many third world countries there is a vast difference in wealth and opportunity. Whilst some children are carers others are living a life that thrives on the difference and inequality...much like the UK!'

Grammatically correct would be better!

Our local gym club is much sought after and has a waiting list longer than Eton The list for the boys class is half as long. I have heard that recently a 'boy' has started who has a waist length plait and feminine features (as far as you can at such a young age). There are strong suspicions that this little mite is in fact a girl dragooned in to pretending to be a boy in order to get in to the class sooner. Mum is apparently adament that 'he' is 'he' and the club have no policy in place to ask for proof. Think they will do so from next year though! How bizarre is that?

I was brought up to be highly independent, flew on my own to France at the age of about five (pick up and drop off at either end obviously, regularly took the train to visit grandparents (with my same age cousin) which was an hour or so train journey with no supervision, visited Israel (again flew alone) when I was about 10/11 to stay with my godfather (who I knew only fairly fleetingly). But when I left for my year out at 18 for China I was massively homesick and had huge culture shock, such that although I was due to live there a year I returned after a month. Now that was twenty years ago and not a big city, but still I think it highly likely that visiting China will be very very different to Paris and that it might be difficult for a seven year old. I can't really see that the benefits would outweigh the potential cost, but hopefully in this case the child is highly independent, mature (or possibly not very perceptive/sensitive) and the family well known through work and have a nice little English speaking cocoon such that she feels safe and happy for her stay.

I guess Anna can tell us in September whether the child appears to be the worse for wear or not

Don't know about the girl in question, but I can defintely say that my 7 year old is well aware of cultural differences having lived in several European countries, North Africa and the middle east/caucasus. So just because this child will experience unfamiliar practices in China does not mean she will be traumatised by them. My dd doesn't like being kissed by strangers in the street, for example, but she accepts that it's part of the culture and is certainly not upset by it. I would hope she will be glad of the experiences she's had when she's older. I'm not saying I would send her way for 2 weeks, but I couldn't 100% rule it out if an opportunity arose.

nooka - indeed

I'm sorry megapixels - you have misunderstood me. I don't mean that everyone in 3rd world countries grows up in poverty - far from it! But I think that it has a huge impact on our way of being. If you're a wealthy family growing up in a poor one (and while your family may not have been very rich, you were presumably in the top 5% of the population), then you are to a degree aware of people who don't live like you do. And actually, the more servants and personnel you employ, the more you are aware of that.

Now you might choose to entirely disregard that. But it still has an impact on your world view.

My dd is 7 and would love to learn to speak Chinese - but no way would she cope with a trip to China on her own, but I wouldn't want to send her. It is sad for those children.

KTN...I assume your child has experienced those diffirent cultures with you? Which would make a huge difference, surely?

This little girl would go to a very different country, with very different values and culture, wiht very different ideas of what is acceptable and what isn't ...and she will have to experience this on her own, all by herself, with a family she doesn't know.

And learning a language for a little while does NOT necessarily equip you to speak it to native speakers, and tbh, chinese languages aren't exactly the easiest most straightforward languages to read/write and speak....

Asana...am at that headmistress...unbelievable...

As for the whole Boarding school thing...now I used to read Enid Blyton and Books like that, and had this very romantic idea of Boarding school and wanted to go as a child...but doubt that reality would have been quite as palatable as the fantasy was...also, my last ex-boyfriend (before I met dh) had been at boarding school since the age of 5 years old and he was most certainly damaged by that, unable to form proper relationships and attachment...and I am no psychologist, etc....but I do have a vague feeling that that might be due to him being shipped off that young...(he was at the same boarding school as his siblings....but still)....

oh, the dolly....the time spend away from home this little girl has experienced was in a very different scenario though....she was away with school, with lots of other children and teachers she was familiar with...completely different kettle of fish than going away alone, to a foreign country to live with a family she doesn't know!

My grandmother won't be winning any parenting awards any time soon as she did something pretty similar to my mum, only it was forever. At the age of 10 my mum was sent 8,000 miles away from her home (admittedly with her brother) to live with grandparents she'd never met, who spoke a language she didn't speak. She was pretty screwed up about it, infact she still has issues about confidence now, she felt totally abandoned by her parents.

My grandparents did this for no reason other than they couldn't really be arsed to look after their kids (the two others were newborn and 2 so I think even they couldn't justify sending them away)

Sure, my mum's grateful she's multilingual (five languages at the last count) but really she could have just done a linguaphone course (she taught herself Italian and speaks it better than my Italian born father) or something as she obviously has an aptitude. The damage it did to her emotionally still resonates 50 years on.

Oh and my mother and uncle travelled alone.... across the atlantic by boat which in those days took three weeks They were terrified.

What a terrible experience Fairy!

It´s interesting how people move on from this type of experience. I suspect your Mother would never have inflicted this type of experience on you as a child, but there are many people who having hated this type of thing when they were growing up (eg. being sent away to boarding school) actually come to accept it as normal behaviour and perpetuate it with their own children. They don´t know any other way.

Fairlady, yes my dd has experienced everything with me, and Í did say I don't think I would do what is described in the OP. I'm just pointing out that if my dd WAS in a situation like that I think she would handle it better, or even enjoy it, because of her previous experiences of different cultures.

NoTart, the wierd thing is she did try and send me to boarding school but that was at 13, and I protested so much she changed her mind. To be honest I think she was more motivated by concern that I was a really shy teenager and that it might help me come out of my shell a bit. I'm glad she learnt from her experience though, although being sent to weekly boarding school a hundred miles away from home is nothing like being sent to another continent when you're ten!