To think these people should actually learn to discipline their child

[memoo]

Yesterday I went out for a pub lunch with DP and our 4 DC age 5,7,8 and 10. Afterwards we sat out in the beer garden which has a fab childrens play area.

After a little while a little boy of about 3 started tagging along playing with my DC which was lovely. He really attached himself to my DS who is 8. DS didn't mind at all and was happily playing with this little boy.

After a while the little boy started getting a bit aggressive and was kicking and punching my DS. My DS is not an aggressive boy and did not hit back at all but looked at me in that kind of 'what do I do look'

I kept glancing at this littles boys family but they clearly weren't going to do anything. My DS was getting really fedup so I approached the little boy and said I know he was only trying to play a game but that he shouldn't be kicking or punching and that my DS didn't like it.

At this point the boys father storms up and says 'whats the problem' I explained about the kicking and punching expecting this man to ask his little boy to stop.

The man didn't seemed bother at all though, he said to me "I don't see what the problem is, its just a game they all play at nursery"

I explain that my DS didn't like it at which point the man said "well he must be a nancy boy" and dragged the little boy off for a cuddle

I was stunned! Just because this little boy was a lot younger than my DS surely its not ok to let your child punch and kick another child?

My 8yo DS is also a magnet for much younger children who can be very rough and I never know how to deal with it, or how to help him deal with it. Other parents often seem to think it's OK to let them get on with it because they're so much smaller, but one day DS1 might retaliate (he's ginger!)

Do think the man should at least have told the child to stop and certainly shouldn't have insulted your DS

Good for your DS for being such a lovely boy, sadly there are people who think being aggressive makes you a better person. They also think that swearing at their kids is not only acceptable but clever, that public humiliation is sport.

YABNU sadly you may be over-hoping that some people could make the slightest effort to act in a reasonable manner.

Well you can see where the child learned his habits from there. There's not much you can say to a man who thinks that not hitting strangers is a sign of weakness.

I do think generally that kids could do with more discipline. After all that's kinda in the job description if you're a parent.

Phew! I always drop in and lurk on these threads just to check it's not me ... . Thought it was going to be a complaint about N. London liberal-type parenting - of which I have been accused. (Though I don't live in N. London.)

Well, I think the situation you're describing here goes a little beyond "discipline; unwillingness of parents to undertake thereof", really.

And I suspect you might have cringed if you'd witnessed the dps in this instance doing a bit of their style of disciplining and what they might have chosen to discipline for. Maybe.

Very badly handled I'm afraid, yabu. If you go to a pub then you surely understand that alcohol will bring out the worst in people. People will also be highly defensive of their dc heightened by alcohol.

At the first sign of trouble you should have removed your son from the source of attack and left hastily. Under no circumstances reason with yobs and their offspring.

It could have been so much worse. What were you thinking?

I remember feeling chastened by an irate dad in a ballet class of all places after I told his dd off (mildly) for disrupting the class.(She was a spoilt, daddy loves me bullying tyke who thought she could be rude and get away with it)

Leave well alone unless you want your teeth knocked out and be sworn at in front of your own dc.

Bumble - why should the OP have left swiftly? Her family was having a lovely time before the small child in question starting hitting and kicking. Why run away spoiling a perfectly lovely family outing? Surely that is just teaching the DCs that bullies always win? Surely better to have been through the experience and teach the DCs to rise above such purile behaviour?

apologies, puerile

The enormous vast majority of people in pubs will not knock your teeth out and swear at you for asking their child to stop hitting your child.

Bumble either you never go to pubs or you live somewhere very very scary.

Bumblebooz - I dont see how what memoo did was the wrong thing to do at all
Just removing yourself in a situation like that is essentially a green card to whoever to carry on behaving badly

Memoo you did exactly what I would have done

I've seen this in a playground where a woman was sat with her friend and their two children one 2yrs old and one at least 4yrs old, went around kicking and punching school kids who were on an outing (this was in a wildfowl reserve).
The school kids were about 10/11yrs old and they did not know what to do, so just laughed.
The mum was watching them the whole time, but you can bet your bottom dollar, if one of the older kids had even told the young ones off, she would have been over there like a shot.
She just seemed to think that it was OK and acceptable for boys to hit strangers!

I just think there is a subculture in this country (and others) whereby expecting others (and heaven forbid their dc!)to have any form of self control, discipline, manners, politeness or etiquette in an alcoholic environment is asking way way too much of them. I would have apologised profusely for having willingly and knowingly brought up a nancy boy who was not even able to defend himself against a 3 yo thuglet and asked whether said father could possibly teach said nancy boy a thing or two to toughen him up a bit?

Or possibly could have praised thuglet for his deft right hook and say 'wow! he's a tough little fellow isn't he? What a clever little chappy!He's certainly going to be someone to watch when he's older!'

Said dad might have been chuffed at this and so trip to pub ending amicably.

Bumblebooz, you are joking, right?

"Nancy boy"? Did he think it was 1974?

(that probably would have been my unwise riposte)

Are people sarcastically missing the sarcasm and therefore being sarcastic, and I am now stupid for missing their sarcasm? Or are people just missing BB's sarcasm?!?

Bumblebooz, Why should I have left, we weren't doing anything wrong. DS tried for a good 10 minutes to get this little boy to leave him alone but he was literally following him around the play area trying to kick him.

"I would have apologised profusely for having willingly and knowingly brought up a nancy boy who was not even able to defend himself against a 3 yo thuglet"

You seriously think I should teach my 8 year old to turn round and punch a 3 year old!!!

My boys playfight together and with friends. However, if a child doesn't want to play rough my 2 would be told to stop, this family should have realised what was going on. Otherwise it's just their child beating up another child.

I so hope Bumblebooz is being sarcastic cause that is a very weird opinion on how to deal with bullies she has there!

The only bonus to leaving the pub would maybe be that the "little thuglet" would learn that his behaviour makes people want to get away from him which might encourage him to find another way of playing.

I hate playfighting. Anything other than pile-on type wrestling and tickling makes me very uncomfortable. I certainly wouldn't accept someone hitting or kicking my son for fun! Always ends in tears. And if that means I am raising a nancy boy then I am very proudly raising a nancy boy. I never did like brain-dead muscle men, never did anything for me. Give me a softie I can have a conversation with anyday!!

I also wonder what the "thuglet"'s father would have done if Memoo's DS had hit him back? Probably gone mental about an 8 year old smacking his son. Some people will fight over anything!

I think it sounds like you have a wonderful boy there Memoo - congratulations

I don't think she was saying your 8 year old should have belted the 3 year old, however if he had then the response is that he was joining in the game
I've had another adult scream at mine in a pub playbarn thing and we avoid them now purely because other people do become unreasonable after they've sniffed a beer mat and I suspect I have more to loose in that situation than them.

Of course she is being sarcastic, her post is dropping with it, hard to miss that

Starlight - as someone who has taught her son not to hit smaller children, I'm afraid the idea that your "annoying" child will learn a lesson wouldn't work at all. I can see the temptation - if they got the "knock back" they sometimes deserve, then small children would learn the consequences of their actions.

But you can't win either way - to other parents, the older child will always either be a thug or a nancy.