DH cagey about salary

[CardiffMum]

I know everyone's going to say there are trust and control issues here - and they would be right - but my husband has a very different attitude to money to me. We are married with 2 children but only got a joint account last year after our first child as I was fed up of living off my savings while I was on maternity leave. I felt asking for money was humiliating and brought back memories of my mother having to catch my dad in the right mood to get housekeeping money when i was a kid or he'd just leave her without. I came to abhor this controlling behaviour and it probably explains why i feel that as my husband and I are in a partnership we should have equal responsibility for our family money. We have both been paying a set percentage of our salaries into the joint account to cover all bills so that we have an equal amount of money in our own accounts each month to do whatever we like with. This sounds fine in theory but DH doesn't tell me when he's had a payrise, has never shown me his payslip (I have seen it though obviously) and is very cagey about any personal savings that he has. I don't even know what these are. I have never done anything to suggest that I am an irresponsible spender so he has no reason to assume that I would squander what he views as 'his' money (I am now on unpaid maternity leave). He has just been promoted and keeps saying he's not sure what his salary is. He gets an extra lump sum every year aside from his salary, for a second job which he's allowed to do in work time - I know the total for this extra amount so I asked how much was left yesterday and he said it's none of my business as that's his money. I am really uncomfortable with this approach to 'his' money - I will be working part time again from July but earning considerably less than him. He wants us to resume contributing a percentage to the joint account when I go back to work which I'm ok with in theory as I certainly don't see my earnings as 'my' money - it's to pay for things that we need as a family - but I feel hurt that he won't disclose all his finances. He said he wouldn't trust anyone with 'his' money, including me - which I know signals pretty severe trust issues and given I've never done anything to warrant a lack of trust I'm not sure how to overcome that. On maternity leave I live on the child benefit which is paid into my own account and food bills, petrol etc are paid from the joint account. DH says we should carry on having our salaries paid into our individual accounts and then transfer set amounts into the joint account because it's such a nightmare to change direct debits etc.

It may be hard to believe but we generally have a good relationship, this is the one thing that causes problems. I accept that some people are just very careful with money, but I don't like the fact that he is so cagey about it. Help.

dh and i have seperate accounts. i pay most of the bills - we actually sat down yesterday and worked out disposable income - cos god dammit - i want half!

custardo: its best if he has no idea about money. Mine is shit. He's like a baby when i talk money shit to him.

thanks all - need to have the dreaded conversation again in next few days. had to keep banging my head against a brick wall for months to get a j/a but it worked eventually so guess have to keep at it.

Could you show him this thread?

YANBU.
My ex-husband was like this, not only over his salary/bonus/etc, but also with the housephone,food,travel, the list was endless. His father was also very controlling over money in the same way your father was.
What I did was not great, I just basically took money out of his account whenever I needed it, and had to be very sneaky all the time. I would not recommend it, was terrible, left a very bad taste in my mouth..
That is one of many reasons he is my EX.
Now, I know everything my dh earns, we plan financial outgoings together, holidays, big purchase, both seek eachothers opinions on anything we might buy, he asks me if he should buy a new shirt for example. It is fantastic, we have no squabbles about money, and I feel like an equal partner in my marriage even though I earn nothing.
I hope you manage to get this sorted, it is a huge issue.

The only reason he is able to go out to work full time and earn what he does is because you are at home looking after the DC. Otherwise he'd have to fork out for a full time nanny and cleaner as well probably.

You could also ask him how he would feel about giving up work completely, you going back full time and keeping all the money? I'm not suggesting you do that (unless you want to), but just to see how he would feel if the boot was on the other foot.

yanbu at all. This post really shocked me

It is the total opposite to my situation as ALL the incoming money in our house goes into my account and I distribute it. I am sahm, DH works fulltime but he works long hours and it makes sense for me to manage the household budget.

So I keep what we need in a bills account, transfer some into a "spend" account for day to day expenses, activitoes with the kids, petrol, school dinners etc and put the rest into a savings account.

I talk DH through the budget, what we have to spend each week on nights out etc and we both stick to that. It might sound as though I have all the control but I am just good with money and we all know exactly where we stand so it works.

There is no secrecy and no control - we agreed together how to manage things which is how it should be.

The secrecy and contolling behaviout your DH is showing would drive me mad. I could not live like that and am amazed you have tolerated this for so long.

Not sure what to advise though tbh - if it were me it would have to be change or it's over but only you can decide where you go from here.

SG

No I couldn't show him the thread. He would feel that discussing family issues in a public forum would be major disloyalty. Just the way he is. He doesn't really seek anyone else's advice about anything - he's a very confident, strongwilled person so doesn't feel the need to.

Maybe I should just do something really reckless like spend more than £40 on a pair of shoes and charge it to the joint account. Then maybe he'd see how good he has it most of the time because I'm really not a big spender.

Last year we needed a new bathroom and he said he couldn't afford to contribute towards the cost and anyway he was prepared to put up with the existing, 15-year old bathroom. I wasn't so I paid for the whole thing - £4000 - out of my account. A week later he booked himself on a holiday with a friend (sports holiday, I was at home with the kids) that cost £600 and said it's up to him what he chooses to spend his own account money on and if I wanted to spend mine on a new bathroom that was my choice.

That sounds pretty bad now I've put it in writing....

I would have a serious problem with this. When I got married it was to the man I trust 100%. There are no secrets between us, especially re money. We have a joint bank account, 100% transparency. We trust eachother, we are responsible adults.

It's not 'mine' or 'his'... it's 'ours'.

No one partner should have control over another - in anyway (physical, emotional, monetary etc.)... it's a partnership... your partner isn't your parent/employer!

I personally couldn't live with someone who didn't feel they could trust me. I think you ned to have a good chat to your hubby about this.

'Last year we needed a new bathroom and he said he couldn't afford to contribute towards the cost and anyway he was prepared to put up with the existing, 15-year old bathroom. I wasn't so I paid for the whole thing - £4000 - out of my account. A week later he booked himself on a holiday with a friend (sports holiday, I was at home with the kids) that cost £600 and said it's up to him what he chooses to spend his own account money on and if I wanted to spend mine on a new bathroom that was my choice.'

I am shocked!!! I am so angry for you. Is it not his house too? I am sorry to say this about the man you love, but I find him incredibly selfish

I've tried the 'how you would feel in my position' approach and he says he would have no problem asking me for money if he needed it, and maybe it wouldn't bother him. We will never know though as he earns 3 times my p/t wage and says he'd never be in my position of not earning money (only while I'm on mat leave) because he couldn't do 24/7 childcare. He says if I find being SAHM at the moment so hard I should just go back to work. Unfortunately he belongs to the 'staying at home with the kids is the easy option' brigade, even though there's no way he would be prepared to do it himself.

How blessed your kids are to have you at home with them - when so many aren't (and I am speaking as a CM here!).

He's got it easy, and he knows it, and he doesn't want things to change naturally, as they are all stacked in his favour. His priorities suck I am afraid.

This thread just gets worse and worse...

I honestly can't believe there are so many men around like this, but the number of threads on here is really depressing. I just didn't realise that things worked like this any more, it's like something from the 1950s...

I honestly don't know what you can do. If it were me I don't think I would be able to stay living like that though, I really don't. I would be eaten up with resentment.

Well i hope you reitereate to him that when you sell the house that the majority of the equity goes into your savings account as you were the one who made payment on household improvements like a new bathroom whilst he chose to large it up with mates.

Sorry - he sounds like a prized idiot on this issue.

My sister's exh was like this, it's called financial abuse. She was never privy to how much he earned and how much the household bills or his spending cost. He drove round in a brand new audi whilst she was stuck with a piece of shit 10 year old banger and was expected to cover the food expenses as well as the upkeep of said banger and provide everything for her 3 DD's and herself. When they were divorcing even the solicitor wasn't able to get to the bottom of how much he actually earned. Thank god she's with someone now who doesn't treat her like shit and they deal with everything together equally.

It's supposed to be a partnership, instead he's treating you like crap it would seem to me. Me and DH have always been well informed of each other's finances, when we first got married we had separated accounts but each had access to each others. Now we have a joint acct which all income comes into and separate accounts for day to day spends, food, savings, holiday savings and our own account for a small amount of personal spends.

I really think you should consider some sort of counselling, even by yourself if he won't agree - it might give you a bit of insight as to how to deal with him if nothing else.

People deal with money in different ways, and obviously people will have different thoughts on whether a new bathroom is necessary, but I think what's important is HOW you're talking or not talking about this. You say that your relationship is otherwise good - does that mean is he a loving and giving person in other ways? Would he object to money being spend on dc?

YANBU. It just illustrates to me why it is so important that people make sure to find out whether they are financially compatible before committing to a relationship together.

I hope you both figure this out because I know that such a matter can be the breaking point of many a partnership.

Good luck.

Sorry, I forgot to say, and please bear in mind that I am only throwing this out there and could way off the mark, that maybe he is afraid that were you aware of his earnings he wouldn't be able to explain the shortfalls - what I am saying, without beating about the bush, is that maybe he is spending a whole lot of money somewhere else that he wouldn't want you to be aware of.

As I said, I might be way off mark but we all know or have heard stories of Men keeping a second family, seeing £500 escorts on a weekly basis, funding a cocaine habit or even a long-term gambling addiction.

GP - so to paraphrase your DH, he'd never be in the situation you're in because he's not capable of doing your job, and because you have abilities he doesn't have, he should have more money than you? Well, that argument just doesn't stack up does it?

He sounds mean, both with money and in his attitude to the valuable work you do.

It would be fine if you were both earning a living wage, like in Quattrocento's scenario. But you're scraping by, and he clearly has more money than he wants to tell you about.

Is your life insured? Perhaps it would be worth a trip to an IFA so that your DH can have your exact value explained to him by an independent expert ie how much it would cost to get all the work you do done by others for a wage instead of by you for free. It might be more than his salary... And you need to talk straight to him about how unreasonable his behaviour is. It is, and you know it.

I am amazed at this thread. I agree with custardo totally. I earn quite a bit more than dh but I never question when he spends what I guess would be my wages. Two joint accounts - that's it. If I want something I buy it and so does he. We are both reasonable with what we spend and agree big spends together.

seems very strange that as you dont work at moment and obv not getting a salary that you dont both share his money

you are at home looking after his/your children

dh and i have a joint account where we both put in same amount each month,and then both have seperate current accounts where the money in there is our own that we have earnt

the joint covers mortgage, bills, food and every day to day stuff

tbh dh hasnt a clue how much we have in our joint, he just puts in same amount each month and leaves me to it (tech i could empty it and not pay mortgage etc, and he wouldnt have a clue for a few months)

i see this as he trusts me - just as i trust him

i have a vague idea what he earns, he is se, and obv the more he works, the ore he gets paid, but then again everytime we go on holiday he then loses out on 2weeksw money which in the summertime is a hell of a lot

he also knows roughly what i earn

aaaaaaaaaah yes, that old chestnut. My DP is the same, zero trust and what's his is his.
we have been together 8 years and I have an 11 year old to a prev relationship. we have always contributed equally to the bills even when I had to go part time due to DS's special needs. then, 3 years ago I qualified and was earning the same as him but I wasn't reaching full potential so he encouraged me to go self employed. Unfortunately the current economic climate has meant that this hasn't really taken off but he still expects me to pay £800 bills (granted he does pay £1300 mortgage and £250 car and also has 2 business loans) but now, 18 months later I am finding myself maxed out on my credit card to the tune of £7k and no income whatsoever. I think it mean of him to expect me to borrow money to pay OUR bills when I work damn hard when the work is there. MEN!! PAH!

lucygrif honestly, not all men are like that.

IT's not a man thing at all.

i know not all men are like that i just meant MEN - can't live with em etc etc. most men have their little quirks and it sometimes makes me mad but we still love em. it could be worse.