to be thinking wtf when it's difficult to walk down a street in town these days?

[LolaTheShowgirl]

The town I used to live in and grew up in is very multicultural. Some areas of the town are majority populated by the Asian community. Now the other day myself and 2 friends were walking through a particular area trying to find somewhere. None of us had ever been in this area before, but as it was a nice day people where out and about and we did not see one non-Asian person at all. The majority of our walk was on a main road and all the people in the cars were even Asian. This itself was not a problem. The problem was the hostile stares we recieved. People looked really angry that we had dared to be white and go in their area.

One of the people who was with us looks Pakistani (although is Iranian) and apparantely one of his friends saw us and said "it's lucky those white fuckers where with you, otherwise they'd have had a good beating by someone or other"

SUWOO, I lurrrve Cheetham Hill. Have you ever been to the little white Italian near the corner of Cheetham Hill Road/Middleton Road?

Hi Lola, No I haven't actually, I don't know why. San Rocco its called. I don't get out much these days and we tend to go to Kroma or Pizza Express.

Kroma.....yum!
Sometimes I wish I worked in the centre of Manchester again. Just for the lunches.
Is Grinch still there? Used to love that place.

Lola, I woke up in the middle of the night and was worried that I'd named Oldham when you specifically hadn't . Sorry!

I don't know actually, DH would know- he works in St Anns Square. There is a Kroma in Prestwich now dontcha know. Are you Haslingden way Lizzylou? Think I've seen you mention it on other threads.

Almost, Suwoo, am in the Rossendale Valley, we used to live in Ramsbottom but moved this way 4 years ago.
I used to work in St Anns Square, we did a lot of client lunches and boozy after work nights out.......those were the days!
Now I'm lucky if we go to Tescos coffee shop

Abi

You can say what you like against anyone who isn't white (which, for some people, would include Jews, obviously).

I think what you can't do is what the OP did which is lump huge numbers of them together, purely on the basis of their skin colour, and then presume to be able to read their thoughts.

What happened to you at school, as well as being wrong, is based on fact.

What happened to the OP - with the possible exception of a single remark made by someone who, for all we know, could have been drunk, confused, mad or all three - was all in her head.

That is very rude MIFLAW, why is it not fact that the OP felt uncomfortable? Why would someone who relayed the fact that she was not "welcome" in that area necessarily mad or on drugs?
The town in question does have distinct and well documented "no go" areas (for both white and asian people), so her fears and feelings of being unwelcome or even threatened are not entirely unfounded.

Rude? What's rude about it?

"Why would someone who relayed the fact that she was not "welcome" in that area necessarily mad or on drugs?" I grew up in a town where non-whites were (at the time) very unwelcome. But most people, even bigots, are basically polite and, frankly, timid. As a rule, they do not voice their feelings to strangers. So my assumption is based on the fact that a single person who does so, without direct and personal provocation, might well "have their reason temporarily disturbed".

It clearly IS a fact that the OP felt uncomfortable. What is NOT a demonstrable fact is that any one of these hundreds of Asians she saw did anything to provoke it.

Also, if these "no go" areas are so well documented, what was she doing there and why was she so surprised about the response?

When people do that sort of thing in Belfast, they call it the marching season ...

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once again another thread where someone airs an opinion and gets branded a racist.......

Starting to think mumsnet is not a place for chat anymore. Poor OP she felt threatened, she didn't come on here calling anyone names, she said nothing at all that implied even slightly she was racist, just that she felt threatened in an area that had 'no go' areas. Why should any area be no go??

Why cant a black, asian,pakistani, white, french, albanian person go into certain areas without feeling threatened.

I to have had a similar experience going into an area which is predominatly somalian/black communities and felt threatened. No it wasn't because i was the only white person, it was the fact my car was approached several times whilst i was still in it, the yells telling me to of and what was i doing at the time....... Driving to get somewhere?? I did nothing to provoke this behaviour.
The only positive thing that came out of that day was it gave me an insight into example a black person walking through a predominatly white town. I now understand how other people may feel.
Its a sad world we live in where we can not express our fears through fear of being branded and labled racists!

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The European white community was responsible for inventing the concept of the ghetto and should take responsibility for all that arises from that.

Or, alternatively, if you don't like that or think it's nothing to do with you, then recognise that things will take time to change and that the change will need to be on both sides.

I would hazard a guess that the number of areas and communities in the UK where non-Whites feel "threatened" or "unwelcome" far outstrips the number where Whites feel the same, so perhaps we should address that first?

about this discussion.

there are areas in my town i don't like going to, because i feel intimidated by gangs of young asian men. they ARE trying to intimidate me, and getting a kick out of it. yes, they're immature, no, they're not representative of an entire community, but they are doing it and it makes me not want to go there. same area as mamadiva was talking about. the community, white and asian, was very strong about condemning those men and rightly so, but i've nevertheless been called a white bitch for parking my car in a spot where it turned out another guy wanted in.

Lola, you have to tell us if this is a wind-up. I am quite prepared to engage with this if you say where it was. There are parts of Europe that are no-go areas, so it is not too much of s stretch to think it could happen here.

I don;'t want to dismiss this as racist, if her fear was genuine, then it was genuine. But it also needs some analysis. Like how many people were hostile - a majority, or a few blokes?

Monkeytrousers, it was Oldham (see my posts before about known problems in that area). I outed the town, and have done so again, sorry Lola.

Yes, well, as distatesful as it might be for some people to discuss it, there are enclaves in europe that are self governing now, that the police don;t go in, and where visitors who do not obide by the 'law of the neighbourhood' are intimidated.

Homosexuals have appare3btly been warned away from Amsterdam, it's just not safe for them. I hear all this from DP who is buried in all the recent data. I do challenge him on a lot of things. But even with a skeptical perspective the picture coming from some parts of europe is not encouraging. It is still illegal for western men to practice polygamy, but the states of many countries pay for men to bring over numerous wives and many children, even though these men have to be well off to be polygamists anyway in their native country.

Also, apparenbtly the westen govenments are hoping to allay the pensions crisis by striking a deal with Islamic nations to draft in men to fill up the gap of work viable people.

I really think they should specify that they want women from Islamic states, if anything.

MT, I think you'll find that Amsterdam is one of the liberal cities in the entire world when it comes to homosexuality. Not clear about the drafting men in from Islamic countries either, most western governments are battling to turn away economic migrants.

The op isn't worded very senistively put agree with whoever said about racism not being very approachable on this forum because any negative insinustion about another race leads to bleats of racism. Racism happens all ways, white to non white, afor-caribbean to white, asian to afre caribbean ( this I've heard most vociferously a number of times).

If it is Manchester you're talking about I find it hard to beleive it being South manchester as I've lived here or central manchester 15 years and IMO it's a very integrated communty. Yes there are gang problems but not limited to any one particular race. Most of the young Gang members are mixed race anyway as are their parents.

However I've experienced open direct racist comments from young black males on a psychiatric ward (as a staff member) from patients and perpetuated by black staff. This was allowed to go unchallenged despite the fact that for some of us (white females) it was reaching harrassment proportions. However this does not uniformly taint my attitude to ethnic minorities in general it was their individual horrible behaviour. However the fact that we were encouraged to just tolerate it speaks volumes, had it been the other way round we woulld have got the sack.

Histility and prejudice is never acceptable regardless of the colour of the skin of the person dishing it out.

There are a couple of outlying districts (small mill towns) in Manc where is dangerous to go due to ethnicity, that's the reality. Nothing to do with prejudice just wanting to keep yourself safe.

Monkeytrousers

PLEASE enlighten us all as to the source of your "information".

Miflaw- I don't understand why you are being so aggressive to other posters and rude about the OP. Other posters have come on and confirmed that the area she was walking in is known as an intimidating no-go area.
Yet you still don't believe her. Based on what?
The fact that it's never happened to you

And you can't blame the whole of white Europe for creating ghettos- that is down to various governments and the ruling classes, not every white person, how ridiculous.

Miflaw, not sure how the Ghetto is the fault of EUropean white people. SInce time immemorial, immigrants have tended to stay together in urban areas. Look at the East End, rom the Huguenot SIlk weavers, through the waves of Jewish immigrants to Muslims today. What's the alternative? To force them out to the country?

Mrsruffalo

"you are being so aggressive to other posters and rude about the OP."

I don't think I've done anything aggressive apart from ask people to back up opinions that they have presented as fact; and I don't think I have been rude about the OP. I am curious, though, as to why, if you know somewhere is a no-go area, you would then go there - what is the appeal? And, if you did go there and it really is as bad as the OP says, why you would then be surprised about the hostility?

Perhaps you could give me an example of where I have been aggressive or rude to anyone?

The ghetto was invented in Venice in the 12th century, I think. It quickly spread to other parts of Europe with Jewish populations. This is fact. I am not blaming the whole of white Europe for it, I am saying no one but white Europe was to blame.

I go on to say that people who (perhaps reasonably) feel they cannot be held accountable for events 800 years ago should instead be looking at ways out of the problem of "no go areas".

As this problem (perceived hostility and a sense that one is not welcome) is much more keenly felt by non-Whites than Whites, I suggested - very calmly - that we start by sorting that out first.

So we sort that out by not going there?

Miflaw, can you name some no-go areas for ethnic minorities?

I think it used to be the most liberal. Will have to get DP ti draw me up a list of sources.

FWIW, like I said, I am skeptical about much of this - but that means that I have to read all the stuff, not just the stuff that confirms what I want to be true.