to be thinking wtf when it's difficult to walk down a street in town these days?

[LolaTheShowgirl]

The town I used to live in and grew up in is very multicultural. Some areas of the town are majority populated by the Asian community. Now the other day myself and 2 friends were walking through a particular area trying to find somewhere. None of us had ever been in this area before, but as it was a nice day people where out and about and we did not see one non-Asian person at all. The majority of our walk was on a main road and all the people in the cars were even Asian. This itself was not a problem. The problem was the hostile stares we recieved. People looked really angry that we had dared to be white and go in their area.

One of the people who was with us looks Pakistani (although is Iranian) and apparantely one of his friends saw us and said "it's lucky those white fuckers where with you, otherwise they'd have had a good beating by someone or other"

Sorry, MQ - cross post.

Couldn't I have a friend that lived there?

And the only person whose arguments I'm finding tiresome are yours, to be honest.
I have no political end to use this argument for and certainly don't belong to any of the parties/ groups you mentioned- I guess that is what you are insinuating.
I find it insulting that you assume I am some kind of fascist or bigot. I don't even feel like conversing with you any longer.

Just because people don't agree with you, doesn't mean you are more liberal/enlightened than them.
It means they don't agree with you.

I'm not insinuating anything. If I wanted to call you a bigot or fascist, I would.

Of course you could have a friend who lived there. But none of my friends would say to me, "come to my house, but come tooled up, because there's a good chance you'll get attacked on the way here." I suspect they'd come to mine or meet me in town instead.

I don't think I am particularly enlightened or liberal. But reading some of the things you and a few others have posted is like reading the Daily Mail - maximum injured pride and minimum thought.

I'm off now, as I'm sure you'll be glad to know.

Oooh, I got called 'Daily MAIL!!'
That's never happened before.

You shock me.

"which is used by the BNP, the FN, and bigots of all persuasions in Northern Ireland to justify marching into sensitive areas, casting themselves as victims and then capitalising on the inevitable chaos for political ends."

that's a very fair point about groups going to areas they know will incite problems. but what about when dealing with the individual? i just couldn't imagine anyone reacting to a black person or asian person being racially abused or being intimidated to go somewhere with a "well they shouldn't be there in the first place/why would they want to go somewhere they're race isn't wanted"

Like I say, of course, if you genuinely want to go somewhere, of course you should be able to go there.

But I genuinely cannot see what attraction there could be for the ordinary individual in going to an area where he or she risks verbal or physical attack.

If this thread was about being intimidated when going to the town centre - or, for example, we were talking about all-white pubs where black men were made to feel unwelcome - which far outnumber pubs where the reverse is the case - I could see a real rather than a theoretical basis for this rage.

But I'm afraid from this distance it sounds a lot like bleating about something with limited practical relevance when, at the same time, very real and common analogous situations are ignored on a daily basis.

So MIFLAW, you've gone from the stance that there aren't any "No Go" areas to "Well, it's your own fault for going into "No Go" areas."

As I understand it, Lola hadn't been to that area of her home town for a while, having moved away. I think most people would presume that they would be OK on their home turf.

I worked in Burnley (who have voted in 2 BNP Councillors)for a while and was shocked at the rascism on both sides, people who wouldn't sell their houses to Asians/Whites but have never actually felt that there were any No Go areas. Actually, that is a lie, there was one place, but that was because it was full of drug users/dealers and drunks and I stood out like a sore thumb in my work suit. Nothing to do with race. It was a deprived area and one for where regeneration is earmarked, they need it.

Lola felt uncomfortable, she felt out of place and was told that she was right to do so. I really don't find that too hard to understand.

"If this thread was about being intimidated when going to the town centre - or, for example, we were talking about all-white pubs where black men were made to feel unwelcome - which far outnumber pubs where the reverse is the case - I could see a real rather than a theoretical basis for this rage"

that's where we will have to agree to disagree then. because i can't see why just because, for example, white on black racsim is greater than black on white it should not be as vehemently opposed.
it's like saying jewish people should ignore anti-semitism as it's not as prevelant in the UK as racsim towards blacks or muslims.
it's wrong and should be oppossed in all it's forms.

MIFLAW you said in an earlier post should we not do something as a society to prevent these ghettos from happening and to change it.

Surely by going into a 'no go' area is doing excatly that, change has to be accepted by all races, black, asian, white etc and we should all learn to live in mixed multiculural areas. I can understand that years ago black people had a really hard time and were treated horrendously but times have moved on. Great Britain now has so many different cultures and so much vibrancy in different areas. We have apologised for the awful things that happened to black people which is not that many years ago, so i hope im not making it sound minor i know how bad it was.

I am going to be blatently honest here so i apologise in advance to any black people reading this post its not racist so please do read!
When i was younger i was bought up in a white area, i never ever saw any black people. In fact the first black person i saw or infact anyone from a different race other than white british was when i was about 12! How sad is that. My mind was so warped i was adamant every black person looked exactly the same i could not tell the difference, and you know why, because all i could see was the colour of skin and nothing else! Was this racism??? No it was plain ignorance. I grew older started work and started working with colleagues from such different backgrounds to myself, brazilians, black british, pakistani, and the list went on.
Its sad that it took me till i was 17/18 to realise that we are all the same, we do all look different but hey it doesn't matter.
I have had to tackle my father and granparents about racism to which i still do on a regular basis, but i know they dont mean to be racist its ignorance plain and simple. I am ashamed of myself, ashamed that i even thought like that and im so glad i have changed now.
example my grandad once said to me 'I'm not racist I have a black fried who i'd happily invite over for a drink'

We need to get rid of these 'No go' areas. Why cant i pop to an asian shop in an asian suberb to buy their spices and food that is much nicer than your average tescos? (example) or walk down a street just to enjoy the different cultural living/lifestyles without the fear of being sworn at, spat at or anything like that?

Anyway am sure everything i typed was stupid of me and i'll prob be flamed for some reason or another. I hope i dont as i just wanted to be honest I'm not to good at posting on thread like this but felt i needed to.

I know, sorry - got that from a later post Talbot

MILFLAW, The place I was going to only has one walkable route, and seeing as there was no transport, then there was no choice to walk through it.

Can you describe the hostility Lola? Who was it from - males? females? both?

Lizzylou - I have never said there are no no-go areas. I have said that majority populations of a single race don't make no go areas. It takes more, often something entirely unconnected to the race of the majority. And I stand by that.

Mayorquimby - wedon't have to agree to disagree. You just have to think. I have said throughout that racism in either direction is equally unacceptable and to be contested. But I think that, when there is a practical problem, most people in most situations would agree that it is most effective to deal with the most prevalent category first.

Incidentally, I would say that anti-semitism is just as prevalent as racism to blacks (how one can be racist towards a faith group like Muslims escapes me) but is these days more on an intellectual than physical level and so tends to get overlooked.

Creme eggs - why shouldn't we go into a particular area to buy spices, indeed? And why shouldn't we smile at the people we meet on the way there and the way back? We might surprise each other. But some people seem to be advocating going to them just to prove a point. There are lots of areas of lots of towns that are unsafe for women to go to late at night. That is unacceptable and needs to be changed. But the sensible way to do it is not for a lone woman to set off into that area on the basis of "why the hell shouldn't I?" Nor is it solved by "all men are bastards." It needs considered, consolidated and intelligent action from the community as a whole.

yes Miflaw see your point there, but surely if we all made small steps as individuals then bigger steps would be made as a whole. I liken it to elections, we all do our bit by voting, making our own effort and across the board huge advances are made.

Although putting oneself as risk is definately not a wise thing to do, having said that, if i found myself in an area i was unfamiliar with, which was hostile towards lone white woman i would be petrified. I was in an area in Bristol once, went about my business and when i got home and told DH what i had done that day and where I had been, he was livid with me for putting myself at such great risk as the area i had been in was a well known 'No go' area. I'd had no idea .