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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To expect my child to not be punished by withdrawl of food in his first week at nursery?

85 replies

Ozziesmom · 04/06/2009 18:06

I would really appreciate some fedback here! DH and I have just collected DS (just 2) following his third day at nursery to find him playing unsupervised in a room on his own while other children and staff played together in another. This was quite upsetting as he is normally a very sociable child, I don't have issue with this but am setting the scene!

We were then told (by a child) that DS had been naughty and wasn't allowed a yogurt. Indeed this was the first thing he said to us when we saw him. A member of staff told us that he had not been allowed a yogurt for dessert as he had taken two sandwiches instead of one.

I am angry because, firstly, this is his first week, he does not know the "rules" yet- secondly he has just turned two and this is definately normal two year old behaviour! which, yes I agree needs challeging but I thought that withholding food is a big "no no" it is not something we do at home.

Not only this he was clearly made to sit with the group who were all well aware that he was not allowed to eat with them, which I know would have been very upsetting to him- he is still forming relationships there.
Sorry about the ramble I am so upset I could cry! am I being overprotective and unreasonable? There was nothing in the nursery policy to suggest this would be a form of sanction?

OP posts:

pavlovthecat · 04/06/2009 18:57

2 year olds do NOT need to be punished for anything they do, they need to be taught and guided with gentleness, understanding and compassion.

YANBU, I would remove him immediately myself.

nannynick · 04/06/2009 19:00

Leaving a child unsupervised in a room on their own I consider to be a breach of the regulations (assuming you are in England). In EYFS Framework (May 2008) it says: "Children should be supervised at all times, with staffing arrangements organised to meet the
individual needs of all children.
Exceptions to the requirement that staff included in the ratios must be working directly with the children may only be made in limited circumstances, such as when the children are sleeping or resting. In these circumstances all the adults need not be present in the room with the children, but
should be available nearby on the premises should they be needed." See page 32.

This breach of the regulations should be initially reported to the Nursery Manager. If you are unsatisfied with their response, then notify the regulator (Ofsted - 0845 6404040 - Complaints Guide)

Is the sanction of denying the child pudding, plus isolating the child in another room standard procedure in their behaviour management policy? I doubt it. Have you seen the behaviour management policy? Ask the Nursery Manager for a copy.

asicsgirl · 04/06/2009 19:03

notevenamousie · 04/06/2009 19:04

I would have been upset by this too. I was told by every child in the place and the two nursery nurses the first day dd got sent to "the naughty step" - which has been rare and each time justified. But they have never withheld food. I'd be asking around about vacancies elsewhere tbh.

Hangingbellyofbabylon · 04/06/2009 19:07

find a good childminder instead, no way would my child be going back to that place.

FabulousBakerGirl · 04/06/2009 19:07

Refusing pudding if they mess about is wrong too imo. Food shouldn't be used as anything other than sustenance.

Merrylegs · 04/06/2009 19:13

"NB We were told by the two members of staff that were there that they did not agree with withholding food but had to go along with their manager!"

Ozzie'smum - that would set alarm bells ringing for me I'm afraid. This statement suggests that the staff looking after your child do not feel empowered or have the initiative to do what is right for him.

If my child was being looked after by someone in a nursery I would not want 'nursery policy' to stand in the way of common sense or decent behaviour towards another human being.

I don't know your circumstances, nor what is feasible for you, but I'm afraid I am in the 'get the hell out of there' camp!

ChippingIn · 04/06/2009 19:29

Ozziesmom - the behaviour over the sandwiches is terrible. I can understand them wanting to teach them to take one at a time, then another if they want it, but to punish a little wee newbie for taking 2 is ridiculous and pathetic.

I don't like the idea of him being alone either, but as you haven't really said what kind of a space he was in nor if it was his choice or theirs it's hard to say...

The thing that bothers me though is the staff reaction to it all, each blaming someone else and saying 'it's policy' etc - it's not the environment I would want my child in.... however, he seems happy there, so I think I would see how it goes and keep a very, very close eye on it all.

FBG I wouldn't have any problem with the pudding being withheld from the older children who are unable to behave themselves at the table. Pudding is a treat not a meal - so no problem withholding it as far as I'm concerned! I'm not sure which of us is 'right', but I'm sure neither approach will hurt them

gingernutlover · 04/06/2009 19:38

both these things are inexcuse-able

the food thing is mean and innappropriate punishment plus the reason he was punished is totally ridiculous

the being left in a room alone is downright dangerous and I would not be sending my dd back to a nursery where this is accepted practice

what are you going to do?

ThingOne · 04/06/2009 19:38

Staff blaming manager and manger blaming staff rings alarm bells for me too. Whatever it was, it is so clearly wrong. A two year old is only just beginning to learn to help themselves. If they are that strict on portion control they should hand them out individually. But why on earth they aren't allowed more than one, I can't fathom. Surely if a small child is hungry you give them more food?

Withholding pudding as a punishment for bad behaviour is a bit antediluvian too.

Even though they have rung I think you should write outlining your concerns. Not a stroppy letter but a clear, factual one detailing what happened.

wotulookinat · 04/06/2009 19:49

I would be furious and I wouldn't send my child back there. I feel very strongly about the whole food issue, and I completely agree with Hecate when she says that food should not be used for punishment or reward, as it can set you up for a lifetime problems with food. (I'm living proof of that!)
I read somewhere recently that by denying a child their pudding, you are giving it higher importance in the child's mind than the main meal, which may well result in the child wanting the sweet more.

wotulookinat · 04/06/2009 19:50

Oh, and that you shouldn't tell a child they can't have their pudding unless they eat their main course for the same reason.

Noonki · 04/06/2009 19:51

second hangbelly get a good childminder, my DS2 has just turned two and I would be livid if someone did this to him. I would not take him back tomorrow under any circs.

Whereas his childminder comes over to us in the park and plays with him when she isnt even minding him. He adores her, she him and as she has raised four lovely kids she knows what she is doing.

And ring Ofsted sounds against policy.

Original poster

Ozziesmom · 04/06/2009 19:52

I do not know if he was left in the room on his own as a punishment or if he had just taken himself off (which I do think is unlikely) it would be unfair of me to say that they were preventing him from being with the others, but I am surprised and upset that he wasn't integrating it what looked like a game he would have loved.

As far as what we are going to do, the answer is short...I am not sure. I agree totally with everyones comments, but it is the blaming thing which is really bothering me, and as merrylegs said, I don't think policy should stand in the way of common sense....

However, he seems generally very happy there so I am thinking about keeping him off next week until we all have a meeting, and in the meantime looking at other nurseries in the area. Am a little scared of going "out of the frying pan into the fire"

The one he is currently in is a Montessori if that puts a different spin on it.

OP posts:

wotulookinat · 04/06/2009 19:56

It doesn't matter if he had chosen to go off on his own or not - the fact is that he was left unsupervised.

My son goes to a childminder and I think that really might be a good option.

tigger32 · 04/06/2009 20:04

This is terrible, my ds2 is also 2 and I would be horrified if this happened to him at nursery, it is not the care you expect for your lo never mind the fact it is his 3rd day! Poor little thing.
If it were me I would not take him back, for gods sake all he did was take a sandwich
I agree with wotulookinat using food for punishment or praise is not wise and can lead to future problems.

merryberry · 04/06/2009 20:27

any montessori worth the name would explicitly not do what you've described.

willowthewispa · 04/06/2009 20:37

"I do not know if he was left in the room on his own as a punishment or if he had just taken himself off (which I do think is unlikely) it would be unfair of me to say that they were preventing him from being with the others"

A 2 year old being able to take himself off into another room all alone is just as worrying as him being punished! Totally against Ofsted guidelines.

jelliebelly · 04/06/2009 20:39

YANBU my ds has been in nursery since he was 6 months old (he is nearly 4 now) and I would be horrified if I thought that the staff would do what you have described.

-Taking two sandwiches instead of one is not naughty behaviour

withholding food for any reason at any age is totally unacceptable
leaving a child to sit on their own as you describe shows a lack of care from the staff - if he wasn't made to sit there he should have been encouraged to take part or a member of staff should have been with him

I think that this is something that needs to be raised and to be honest I would be looking for another nursery.

BottySpottom · 04/06/2009 20:50

How could they be even sure he knows what 'two' means? He may understand in some contexts, but not necessarily be able to apply to flippin' sandwiches.

Noonki · 04/06/2009 22:26

good point botty.

chegirl · 04/06/2009 22:33

He is TWO FFS!

Bloody bastards

And then to weasel about, blaming each other!

I know what I would do with thier flippin sandwiches.

(Is my PMT showing?)

Nighbynight · 04/06/2009 23:05

How ridiculous to expect a 2 year old to know that he should only take 1 sandwich. They should only have allowed 1 sandwich within his reach.

dd is at a Montessori nursery, they put a big plate of fruit in the middle of the table at mid morning, but as far as I know, the children can help themselves to as much as they want, within reason. I have never heard about withdrawing food as a punishment, seems crazy to me.

I would definitely move him.

roneef · 04/06/2009 23:09

YANBU.

How awful. He's displaying typical 2 yr old behaviour.

I would seriously think about removing him

FabulousBakerGirl · 05/06/2009 11:33

Has anything happened this morning?

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