to think that Lighter Life is a big gat waste of money!

[macdoodle]

One of my colleagues has just signed up to this and has gone off in a huff because I have said she is wasting her money!

FWIW I too am overweight and I know the only guaranteed way is to eat less and exercise more - I have done it before I got pregnant and yes its bloody hard work but this is one area where I am pretty sure there is no quick fix!

Also FWIW I am a GP and she is one of our nurses

So AIBU anyone prove me wrong??

Actually I know quite a lot about VLCD - my special interest is diabetes (and hence weight loss is very significant) - am sorry I stand by my OP !

sycamore- I don't think your figures are right- i think the diet "failure rate" for any "diet" is more like 90% not 3%!

Maybe you have hit the nail on the head- what works is the support, and the inclusion of a tiny bit of knowledge of CBT and coaching techniques. And for £66 a week a person could employ their own weight loss coach or personal trainer, who would help them to lose weight in a more healthy manner.

No one denies that eating 500 cals a day will enable you to lose weight. But what you are getting with LL is water and a lot of chemicals. I don't know exactly what is in the drinks etc but I assume they have to add soluble fibre, otherwise your guts would not function on liquds alone.

What I cannot understand is why anyone would want to pay £66 to be given soups and shakes when they could eat 500 cals of real food- and if they need to, employ a coach to give them support.

howtotellmum

Losing weight is not easy, people who are overweight are not morons, they are not lazy and they are not stupid. Being overweight is not a moral failing, it is a case of carrying around an excess of stored energy.

Some of the attitudes towards overweight people really really get right up my nose.

Ok, Macdoodle, But I can't honestly see how you can say LL costs more when you consider how much very overweight people spend on food. Members of my group would previously eat more than one tesco finest ready meal just for a dinner. Then there's the endless £££ frappucino's, cookies, etc etc that just fritter away cash. How can you honestly say you can make a comparison with what other diets cost? WW costs whatever it does a month - but you have to buy all your food on top of that (I'm currently doing WW to lose this stone btw, and am a fan of it for smaller weight losses).

I appreciate your position, but I still must take issue you with the money part of it. I saved money whilst on LL. I certainly used to spend more than £66 pounds a week on food. Fucks sake, I work in central London and just my muffin and latte for breakfast used to cost me £3.50 - and that was on the days I wasn't also ordering a cheeky bacon sarnie as well.

McD - well done on getting back on your own diet and for apologising to your colleague. I know you are a 'shoot from the hip' girl where opinions count and I'm sure your friend does too .

I know three women who did LL. All of them lost shed loads of weight. One lost nine stone - all of them have regained every pound and then some.

The only thing that works is changing your attitude to food and your lifestyle. Diets don't work - if they did why would six new ones come onto the market every week?

Sycamoretreeisvile Well done on all that weight by the way. Bet you feel like a new person!

I LL a low calories or low-carb diet?

it's extreme low calorie and meal replacement - shakes or protein bars.

I think it is both OrmIrian which would be very dangerous in the long run, but I don't think you are supposed to do it for an extended period are you?

Glad to hear it macdoodle, after all the main point here is that she is trying to do something about it. It's more unhealthy to be overweight and doing nothing.

Howtotellmum, can I also just point out that LL and Cd etc are all formulated to contain just enough carbs that there is no muscle wastage.

That was the problem with the original VLCD - Cambridge in the 1970's. It didn't contain enough carbs and the cardiac muscles were being wasted away. Years and years of research have gone into these diets now to ensure they are healthy and the body is getting what it needs.

The main aim behind them is to deal with emotion eating. Food is taken out of the equation so its just not an option. That allows you to see where you go wrong with food and deal with any feelings that arise.

VLCD's are used widespread by the nhs before surgery for obsesity issues. So they can't be that bad!

Of course if you return to your old habits, you are going to return to your old weight. That is the same for any form of diet. Change your lifestyle and you'll change your weight forever.

A personal trainer costs nearly £400 for 6 weeks here. That is more than £66 and there is no CBT (huge waiting lists on NHS so would have to go private which is more money)

Having NO food means having NO choice in what to eat which breaks the emotional dependancy on food and the habit of buying a pack of minstrels because it's evening - or a bottle of wine or whatever your crutch is.

THAT's what it does - removes food/drink crutches and gives you the tools to deal with the issues sensibly and "normally"

LL isn't that expensive when you consider everything it entails, but it was too expensive for me, unfortunately - which is a shame because I could really do with it tbh!

HOWTOTELLMUM - yes, what I meant was the only 3% of dieters succeed - sorry if I posted the wrong way round - I had agitated fingers when typing! You can see I feel quite strongly about this.

From your post and I clearly see your mind just does not work in the same way as those who are overweight, which explains your lack of being able to put yourself in their shoes.

You see, it just is not that simple. And can I ask who this coach is that costs you £66 a week? A lifecoach, or a trainer? I'm not clear. Also, you aren't safe just consuming 500 calories you have thrown together yourself, you need all the vits, mins nutrients that they make sure are in all the packs so your body gets what it needs on that score.

What you propose may seem logical to you, but it absolutely would not work for a food addict.

You need the group. The group is everything. It's the same model as AA or NA. You need to be among and supported by likeminded people.

Ah thanks. Must be very hard to follow then. I think that sometimes the the 'props' make it easier for people - special shakes, literature, meetings, whatever. I knew someone doing WW year ago - she consulted her little booklets endlessly, I think she find it psychologically helpful to have them.

morloth please read again- I did not say that fat people are morons, did I? I said it was a diet for morons - they are moronic for being fat, no- but they are moronic because they want to have a diet which is technically unhealthy, in order to lose weight, and are not prepared to make their own daily food lists/menus in order to eat healthily and lose weight.

I also question your statement that losing weight is not easy-losing weight is easy if you exercise more and eat less. In fact it is dead simple.

As to whether they are lazy- they might be, they might not be- I didn't say that- you did.

What they are doing without any doubt is eating more than than they need.

I didn't make it into amoral case- don't know where you found that. I did say and i do stand by this, that I find it obscene that so many people are so greedy and cannot regulate what they put in their mouths, that they end up huge, and that half the world starves- that is not about morality it is just my opinion.

macd- would you be prepared to make a stand and not sign the forms if you think it is basically an unhealthy diet?

it's a completely false economy.

Because you are replacing meals with shakes and soups you do not learn how to eat healthily or gain awareness of the foods you are eating.

And while the fast weight loss is a huge insentive, it is actually very unhealthy to lose more than approx two lb a week.

And the side effects are horrendous, hair loss, bad breath, etc.

If a diet is successful then it would only take once to lose the weight. But people seem to go back to it again and again. That's not the mark of a successful diet.

And £66 a week ok because you're not buying groceries? That's a bloody expensive grocery bill, I feed my family on less than that.

It took me almost 5 years to lose 75kgs howtotellmum at no point was it easy and it is not easy to keep it off. Calories in/calories out is not necessarily the equation, it certainly wasn't for me.

It isn't moronic to try something like LL it is desperate and clearly you have never been so desperate and therefore have no idea what you are talking about.

And also, I'm not saying LL works for everyone. It's not a magic wand. YOU HAVE TO DO THE HARD WORK.

I personally would much rather not spend every Thursday evening from 8.30pm to 10pm on someone's couch talking about food, whether I'm coping this week, what my strategies have been.

I'm a FT working mum. My DH is SAHP. I have two kids under 4 and I'm very tired when I come home at night.

But I get up off my arse and I go, because it brings me back into focus on wanting to stay slim and healthy.

Many of the original women who did the actual diet part with me left and never bothered with the ongoing management plan. I'm sure they have all put everything back on because they will just revert to previous habits. That's the problem with ANY diet. It can't just be levied at LL.

At least LL have a programme (A FREE AFTER CARE PROGRAMME, I PAY NOT ONE PENNY FOR THIS WEEKLY COUNSELLING NOW) and it's up to the individual to take advantage of it and commit to it - knowing the odds are so stacked against you.

Even WW have moved their group chats to more of this kind of re-programming type of counselling. Which is brilliant IMO.

Yes, because you eat healthily I presume

And on LL the group therapy makes you learn healthy eating and awareness - it's not all about the shakes; it's all about the therapy and counselling which a LOT of people seem to be missing the point of.

Wannabe, yes you do. Because you are not hungry on a VLCD so any hunger you do experience allows you to work out why you are feeling hungry. Most of the time it is emotional hunger and you just want to eat because you are bored/upset/angry etc.

I have never experience any "side effects" either.

oops xposted - that was for wannabe

Wannbe - have you done this diet?

I did not lose hair, I did not get bad breath.

Of course you learn how to eat properly - that's what the whole second phase of the diet is about. It's called route to management and it's a 12 week programme based around GI that teaches you how to put together healthy meals and count calories etc.

After that, you stay on in what's called Long Term Management - which is where i'm at. You just use the group to keep your brain focussed on eating healthily and staying on track with your weight. For Free.

I really wish people who are ignorant of the facts of this diet wouldn't post such sweeping statements.

More handholding on a diet you could not hope to find. As I said - it's up to you to take advantage of it. No one can make you stay on after the initial "high" of reaching your goal weight.

howtotellmum - In what way is it unhealthy? Why do peoples GPs sign them on to it if it's so unhealthy? Why does the NHS use VLCDs if they are so unhealthy? If you weighed 20 stone what exercise do you think you shoud take up? Exercise is very good for you but is actually a really ineffective way of losing weight. To lose one pound of fat you have to do something like 7 hours exercise! For people who are seriously overweight 7 hours aerobic exercise could actually be dangerous.

syc FWIW I was once chubby and never ever want to be that again.

"From your post and I clearly see your mind just does not work in the same way as those who are overweight, which explains your lack of being able to put yourself in their shoes."

I don't know what you mean by your comments above. Just because I am making what seems to be an emotionally-detached point about weight gain, does not mean that I don't know how overweight people think or feel.

There are people who will support you during weight loss on a 1:1 basis and they are a mix of nutritionists and coaches/personal trainers.

I am overweight always have been suspect I always will be - I lost 4 stone before I had DD2 and still had a BMI of 27 (size 12 though ) - I am now 3 stone overweight after DD2 again so I do know where she is coming from!

howto - I dont/wont sign the forms - I am not happy to put my reg on the line by saying its safe when I have no idea what training the counsellors have!