Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that Lighter Life is a big gat waste of money!

302 replies

macdoodle · 01/06/2009 10:54

One of my colleagues has just signed up to this and has gone off in a huff because I have said she is wasting her money!

FWIW I too am overweight and I know the only guaranteed way is to eat less and exercise more - I have done it before I got pregnant and yes its bloody hard work but this is one area where I am pretty sure there is no quick fix!

Also FWIW I am a GP and she is one of our nurses

So AIBU anyone prove me wrong??

OP posts:
londonone · 01/06/2009 19:02

wannabe - How are you qualified to judge that?

Sycamoretreeisvile · 01/06/2009 19:07

HOWTO - no, sorry if I have not been clear. I definitely don't think that people with one or two stone to lose have an emotional issue with food - sorry if I gave that impression.

But LL does not cater to those people, so I didn't think that was really relevant to talk about those people when discussing whether LL is a worthwhile diet.

My mother is always up a stone and down a stone. Sure, she eats if she's down, but can quickly rally herself. But LL wouldn't even consider her or sign her onto it. It's actually only for people with serious weight problems, and yes, I would suggest people with 3 or more stone to lose would on the whole be likely to have ishoos.

Sycamoretreeisvile · 01/06/2009 19:09

And I really want to say that I don't think LL is the be all and end all at all.

But I think it is VITAL there are many options out there available to people to lose weight, so that's why I came on this thread to defend it. Because if it can work for me, there must be some others out there who it can also help.

Some of them are also on this thread.

But different strokes for different folks.

My boss is currently eating nothing but carrot sticks and humous having been to see some hugely costly harley st. nutritionist...

so go figure. She stinks and she is eating so much of it she has not lost any weight.

Morloth · 01/06/2009 19:11

wannabe does your mum enjoy being fat then? Cause if she doesn't I assume she has tried to lose weight? Tried to eat less? Couldn't manage it for an extended period?

So she doesn't have control over her eating then? Think about that, she may say she has no willpower but what she means is that she can't help herself, how is that different from any other addiction?

Sycamoretreeisvile · 01/06/2009 19:13

I have to go now folks.

Peace etc.

FairLadyRantALot · 01/06/2009 19:14

why would someone who eats carrots and humous stink? Genuine question...unless she is eating garliccy humous, that is......than it would be rather obvious why she stinks

howtotellmum · 01/06/2009 19:14

syc- it is a shame that we didn't get that out of the way 10 pages back otherwise we would not have been arguing about it- I had no idea that LL was only for the obese. I thought that VLCD were available for anyone.

Maybe I should know, but someone should have made it clear earlier.

SomeGuy · 01/06/2009 20:28

I had a look at the Lighterlife website, they have two categories - BMI 25-30 and 30+

25-30 is 3 'food' packs (400 calories) plus a regular meal.

30+ is 4 'food' packs and no meal.

Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

If you're fat do more exercise. Buy a bike, buy a treadmill, whatever. Muscle burns fat.

Sycamoretreeisvile · 01/06/2009 20:56

Yes, LRA, stinky garlic breath lol!

And yes, that is quite funny really howtotell - I totally assumed that knowledge, which is wrong.

UNLIKE slimfast, Cambridge et al, you must have at least 3 stone to lose to be eligible for the programme.

They have recently intro'd lighter life lite, for those with a stone or more to lose, which involves one proper meal a day - bit like slim fast plan of old.

But that is relatively new and was not around when I started.

Someguy - PSML - have you READ this thread from start to finish.

If so, your comment sounds a bit silly really. Yes, it's that simple why didn't I think of that before

sarah293 · 02/06/2009 08:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Sherrielc · 02/06/2009 11:39

Hello I just came about this thread through noticing people visiting one of my pages from this thread on the risks of very low calorie diets. I read through the whole thread phew and just wanted to say a good on you to Macnoodle.

I see a lot of people jumping on her but consider this, here is a doctor whom has actually weighed the pros and cons, decided that in her opinion it is not safe and rather then make money due to people making regular appointments with her just to sign a form she has decided to recommend against it instead?

One of the biggest problems with doctors these days is they don't sit back and look at the research themselves before forming an opinion or recommendation. Rather, choosing to simply take the opinion of the drug companies or simply dogma (e.g. the food pyramid!) at face value or let the $$$ incentives sway their decision instead.

It takes integrity to do what she is so good for her, lets just hope shes the same with other things such as drugs like statins and anti-depressants

Now on to VLCD stuff, first of all, I want to say that the last thing I would ever think of a person on such a diet, is that they are a moron. Being obese downright sucks and there's many reasons why a person becomes obese, NO-ONE WANTS TO BE OBESE and comming out of the other side is DAMN HARD. Some obese people don't even eat all that much in the first place! WEIGHT LOSS IS NOT EASY and if you find that it is then YOU ARE LUCKY. I don't know the answer to getting from that position and having everything click into place (this is probably the biggest issue for various reasons) so I don't think badly of a person following a VLCD but that doesn't change how I feel about VLCD's. Whom I think badly of is the people behind such diets whom probably know better, the weight loss industry is a huge money spinner.

I see a lot of talk about emotional eating and being obsessed with food as a reason why LL should be recommended, its great these people have lost the weight and maintained it and it is great if they have overcome these issues but have you ever considered that it was not the result of the diet itself but rather the support? And if you agree that it was the support then would it be so bad for a doctor to rather recommend someone begin their weight loss journey through something with less risks and rather get support somewhere else?

There was actually a research study not too long ago that found a support network to be a vital factor in maintaining weight loss BUT it is important to realise that a person does not need to pay for a VLCD or even pay for anything to achieve that. You guys could easily start up a support network right here on your forum, you will have just as much experience as those so called counselors if not more through your own journeys and shared experiences.

Also, in regards to the comment regarding obsession with food. If you are getting this under control for good through a VLCD then you are one of the lucky ones. The reason I say this is that it is very common for very low calorie diets to cause eating disorders and obsession with food. This is probably one of the most common risks (and can even be a risk on a more milder diet just not to the same degree) and to be honest personally, I would not want to be worked through coming of a very low calorie diet and entering a refeeding stage by someone whom really may have very little experience.

Obviously, one size does not fit all and there is no easy answer. But personally I don't think VLCD's are the answer. Obviously there may be situations where someone has to do that as they need to lose weight quickly in a short space of time for a major operation etc so perhaps for them the benefits may outweigh the risks.

If someone was to do a VLCD though I would at least tell them to ensure they have fat with each meal, say 15g to help minimise their risks for gallstones as well as to ensure they absorb their vitamins and minerals. You can have all the vitamins you like in your shake but remember they are not very well absorbed and some are fat soluble and thus require fat to be absorbed. Also, to only stay on for a maximum of say 8-12 weeks at a time. 12 weeks is the furthest they have been studied and even by then your thyroid may already be impaired and may not return to it's baseline (another common reason for the yo-yo effect).

This is another important factor why a VLCD may be a bad idea as thyroid disease is very common and may be why you are obese in the first place and thus dieting to hard may just make it worse! You may think its emotional eating but it may not be the whole truth. Hypothyroidism doesn't just slow your metabolism down, it makes you feel like shit, it will cause lack of energy, cravings, depression you name it! Unfortunately, it is commonly undiagnosed with patients being chucked on an anti-depressant instead (another common cause for weight issues, emotional eating and probably diabetes 2) to make things worse it is not always picked up in blood tests which are very controversial.

To the person I think wannabe? thank you for sharing that information regarding the counselors, that is a very important factor to consider and I don't understand why she is being knocked for it. You know here in Australia my partner and my son joined a karate club several years ago that knock on your door. They had yellow belts as karate instructors but people wouldn't know as these instructors would wear a black and white striped belt! How would you feel about paying money for your kid to be trained by someone whom may have only been doing karate for a month or two? What if they were injured? It is not any different to what Wannabe showed...

Morloth · 02/06/2009 11:54

Yeah but Riven, you DD needs to be in deep ketosis doesn't she?

She is eating a mainly fat diet. If you mix in some protein and a little carbs the ketosis is not as deep, also drinking a lot of water flushes them out.

JemL · 02/06/2009 12:29

According to their website, you can do LL if you are not what most people would consider obese. At 5ft4 and 10st 5 (size 12)(pre-pregnancy stats, I should point out, not my current 22 weeks preg vitalS!) I would be eligible for Lighter Life Lite, where you have three foodpacks and one small meal a day. I appreciate this is not as extreme as the no-food version but my objections to it remain.

gardeningmum05 · 02/06/2009 12:43

my DP has lost 4 stone with LL. he has been off it now for 3 months, and put half a stone back on. he now does LL during the week but takes the weekend off and has a beer and normal meals. once again he is losing weight.
i think LL is good, has put him in the right frame of mind to tackle his weight issues.

macdoodle · 02/06/2009 13:05

hmmm I have had a response I have had from LL
Most unsatisfactory !! It basically just directs me back to the website and says it answers my questions on there - well it doesnt not at all which is why I sent the email!
I have a bee in my bonnet now - mainly about their counsellors training, and fully informing clients of the risks of VLCD, neither of which are mentioned on their website!
I will try and ring them when I get a chance now I dont like being fobbed off at all!

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 02/06/2009 13:14

hmm, i'm beginning to think LL would be a waste of money for me. no way i'm interested in having to leave the programme in order to have a normal meal.

did anyone catch that show about the two supersized teens who had bariatric surgery (one a gastric bypass and the other a band) when they were 13 and 14?

Sycamoretreeisvile · 02/06/2009 13:23

[but have you ever considered that it was not the result of the diet itself but rather the support? And if you agree that it was the support then would it be so bad for a doctor to rather recommend someone begin their weight loss journey through something with less risks and rather get support somewhere else?]

I think if you read my posts I pretty much attribute ALL the success of my weight loss and maintenance to the support part of the programme.

Of course ideally this might have been found somewhere else (for free!) but where is this place? Nowhere I have heard of.

I think you are talking about ideals, which is great, but this is not the reality in the UK. Also, it's the GROUP dynamic and the sharing of pain and strategies that really works - so one on one would not be as sucessful I don't think. The group makes you realise you are not a freak - there are people out there like you that understand your struggles.

Also, real life often gets in the way. LL is a ready and available solution - all i had to do was pick up a phone and I was at a meeting.

The other route you hint at is much more convaluted, and when you are depressed about your weight the slightest thing can put you off your stride. In my experience, you have a "window" a moment in time where something clicks and you know you are ready. If you don't act fast, it will be gone and it could be another year before another moment occurs.

I remember that very clearly because my prospective counsellor asked me did I want to start before xmas and go through xmas in abstinence. I said yes, without hesitation because I knew waiting until the NY, I would probably have put on another stone just waiting for the diet to start, and I may have lost my nerve/will to do it by that point.

And also, I haven't jumped on wannabe other than to say its unrealistic to expect diet counsellors to be highly trained professionals because the job just cannot yield a high enough income to attract that level of trained professional. It's always going to be the arena of part time workers etc.

To do what you're suggesting would be the already high cost of LL well beyound the reach of the average person. I think that would be a shame.

But I respect your position on the health worries about VLCD. I suspect though, those risks will always be considered worth taking by anyone would is desperate enough about their weight to embark on such an extreme diet in the first place.

greengrapes · 02/06/2009 14:17

I think this whole thread is just a very elaborate fact-finding mission by mcdoodle before she signs up for LL!

The cost - yes, expensive, but once you deduct what you would normally spend on food and drink in a week, not that bad.

The counsellors' training - I believe a properly qualified psychotherapist would charge around £60 an hour and upwards. Fine for those who can afford it!

The health risks - the sample sizes in the research you quote are tiny - much too small to be given scientific credibility. Surely you know that.

In any case, LL briefs you on the health risks before you sign up. You must be seen by your GP before you sign. And I believe the risks associated with being obes and morbidly obese greatly outweigh those of VLCD's.

Also ketosis is not the same as ketoacidosis!

Just stop finding excuses and ditch the lard, OP!

Sherrielc · 02/06/2009 14:30

"Also, it's the GROUP dynamic and the sharing of pain and strategies that really works - so one on one would not be as sucessful I don't think. The group makes you realise you are not a freak - there are people out there like you that understand your struggles."

Yes definitely!!! And that's exactly what I am talking about. This is a forum/support group for mums yes? As demonstrated by this thread there's lots of mums here that are trying to lose weight... What is stopping a support group from forming right here within mumsnet. You could even arrange meeting up for coffee etc

That was my point, it's all here

howtotellmum · 02/06/2009 14:33

Perhaps there is a lot of ignorance about what professional counsellors charge: I work with many and the going-rate is around £35- £40 an hour, for a professional BACP counsellor/psychotherapist.

Similarly, hynotherapists who help with weight loss charge around the same.

There are also weight loss life/personal coaches whose fees are similar.

I don't think it is right to say that properly qualified counsellors cannot "afford" to work for LL as they earn more- they probably don't- I bet that a LL "counsellor" makes at least £35-£40 for the hour she gives to a group of people.

My personal view is that if you have emotional eating disorders, you would be advised to consider other well-qualified people who can support you and help you understand why you overeat.

If the basis of food addiction is an emotional problem, then I would want to see the best person qualified to help me.

howtotellmum · 02/06/2009 14:49

syc said:
And also, I haven't jumped on wannabe other than to say its unrealistic to expect diet counsellors to be highly trained professionals because the job just cannot yield a high enough income to attract that level of trained professional. It's always going to be the arena of part time workers etc.

I don't know any counsellor who makes a full time income from counselling- most have other sources of income, such as teaching, lecturing, nursing etc etc. Some of the counsellors I know work as few as 3-5 hr s a week doing purely counselling work.

I would imagine- not knowing the figures, I confess, that their annual salaries might be comprable ,if not, even, the LL person earning more!

howtotellmum · 02/06/2009 14:51

This is really interesting!
www.lighterlifefranchise.com/unlimited_earnings.aspx

wickedwitchofwestfield · 02/06/2009 15:11

haven't read all the replies but just thought I'd add that as someone who started was 20st 7lb a year and a half ago, I shifted a few lbs with SW, but I'm currently succeeding with WW (am 17st 13lb now - started end of march 2009)

I do not understand why people bother with LL, surely the point of a diet is that it re-educates how you use food and more than anything, helps you to understand portion control and to show you that no food should be forbidden but that it is ok in a measured amount?

I used to eat insanely huge portions of food (esp. on SW - which is why I stopped, it said could eat as much 'free food' as I wanted - so I did, 250g of pasta anyone? ) but WW has really helped me address the issues I had, and the fact that with every stone you lose, you drop a point so that you are not only continuing to lose weight but also that when you reach your goal, it is maintainable for life.

with LL, surely you are merely taking away the temptation so you are not helping to address the actual issues that you have with food - it is easy not to overeat when you have no food, surely the success lies in being surrounded by the food and choosing to either eat something else or exercise portion control - within your points of course

I go out, I eat at nandos, I scoff popcorn at the cinema, I have a cup of hot choc and a couple of biccies in the evening, but I'm still losing weight because I work it into my points and food is no longer the enemy and I no longer feel the need to overeat.

just my thoughts though mind!

Sycamoretreeisvile · 02/06/2009 15:15

That IS interesting howto - might be tempted to flipping start up myself!

I appreciate what Sherri elc is saying, but a group of mums getting together for a coffee (all those muffins!) off an internet forum is hardly likely to yield the same results as structured group run by a decent LL counsellor.

My cousellor is rigorous, caring, careful, gently probing and forces us to consider how we can best help ourselves.

The problem with an informal group is that without anyone leading, it turns into a free for all, or just moan about work, kids etc. It categorically would not work for me.

A thread is fine, but there's no guarantee there's anyone on the end of it when you need them.

I don't mind anyone saying the LL group isn't the ideal, but really there needs to be better solutions suggested, otherwise you must at least admit that their groups are better than what is readily avail at the moment.

My counselling session btw is 2 hours. And AGAIN, can I point out it is FREE

Sycamoretreeisvile · 02/06/2009 15:18

WWW [with LL, surely you are merely taking away the temptation so you are not helping to address the actual issues that you have with food - it is easy not to overeat when you have no food, surely the success lies in being surrounded by the food and choosing to either eat something else or exercise portion control - within your points of course]

You are terribly misinformed about this diet, so suggest you read the thread first then post as I think everyone is a bit tired of going over and over this ground.

You do not know the LL programme clearly, otherwise you would know it is even more vigorous than WW about teaching how to eat healthily and a balanced diet.

And that it's main object is to re-educate the mind around food and patterns of eating.

Swipe left for the next trending thread