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AIBU?

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Original poster

to sack a godmother?

93 replies

Vizzle · 29/05/2009 15:22

So, I have a small baby and had asked a family friend to be godmother.

But I just witnessed her being so horrible to my mum and read an even more horrible email she sent her. They've now fallen out. My mum's lovely, by the way.

Do I:

a) do nothing and see what happens

b) email her and tell her I've changed my mind

c) email her and tell her I've changed my mins because she's a foul-mouthed monster, and tell her she's been replaced by a gay man, who'll now be fairy godmother?

What's the etiquette?

OP posts:
QS · 29/05/2009 17:04

I should add, I posted in haste, as knowing you, you would not be malicious.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 29/05/2009 17:05

Not in your first post merry

I suppose all the godparents I know and all the christenings I've been to have been pretty heavy on the religion. Godparenting is certainly something I associate with, erm, god, anyway.

Anyway i suspect we will never get to the bottom of what the OP has planned, which is a shame, as I don't like to be left baffled!

MrsMerryHenry · 29/05/2009 17:19

Can you not read my mind? It ws implied!

In contrast with you, I've been to lots of christenings where the godparents weren't believers so it was pretty clear that they were not chosen for the more traditional reasons!

Vizzie has disappeared, hasn't she?!

-----

QS - really, really sorry. FWIW one of my close relatives did the same thing. When I read the posts this morning, it made me cry.

PolkSaladLucie · 29/05/2009 17:20

In responce to the original question, I would go for a variation of 'C'.

Sit down with her and explain that you are upset by what has happened and it has made you reconsider your relationship...

With regards to 'godparent' issue,
a) there is no set number of how many godparents of each gender - my daughter has two godmothers and two godfathers.
b) most people would baptise their child and take them to church and then if your child wants to take things further in 15 years time, they get confirmed.
c) if you're not religious, please don't have a baptism. It undermines the fact I have baptised my daughter. Have a naming ceremony.

MrsMerryHenry · 29/05/2009 17:22

PolkSalad, can you explain this: "if you're not religious, please don't have a baptism. It undermines the fact I have baptised my daughter"

It seems an odd thing to say.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 29/05/2009 17:26

Sorry merry I haven't reached the mind-reading part of my spiritual guidance yet

I've never been to a naming ceremony, though I did have a civil wedding as I'm not religious (even though DH is). My friends are all practicing catholics and DH is a milder form of christianity (sorry I don't mean to make it sound like an illness honest!) - when he came to his first christening he was at the things involved in an RC christening!

I guess you have a naming ceermony if you have spiritual beliefs which aren't catered for by the mainstream religions? So as an athiest I probably wouldn't want one?

lowrib · 29/05/2009 17:29

I'm not religious, here's how god parents work for non-religious people ..

It's nice to have someone in your child's life who is named as a special person, who they can call their 'god parent'. Although for Christian people the role entails something specific to do with spiritual guidance, the non-religious can also see merit in bits of this custom, outside of the religious context, and so they take those bits of this custom which are relevant to them and reinvent it to suit them, and that is just fine!

And, dear Christians, I'm afraid it would be the pot calling the kettle black you to even consider complaining about others re-appropriating your customs. Isn't the majority of the Christian calendar is based on pre-Christian rites and rituals? I mean look at Easter for a start - eggs, bunnies and a date which depends on the lunar calendar? What's that got to do with Jesus? Sounds pretty Pagan to me!

HTH

LovelyTinOfSpam · 29/05/2009 17:31

lowrib I personally would not feel comfortable using the term godparent as I don't believe in god.

Are there any other terms available? Or is it something you'd have to make up?

MrsMerryHenry · 29/05/2009 17:35

Actually, Spam I am a Christian though rarely use the term these days, as it usually brings a whole heap of stereotypes assumptions to the minds of non-Christians. I feel that since I don't recognise myself in those stereotypes, I would practice not using the word to describe myself and see whether people would just take me as I am. So by 'outing' myself to you, you are one of the honoured few!

Anyway we did our own ceremony because we've not been affiliated to a church for years but wanted to mark our DS's entry into our lives. It was inspired by a friend's secular naming ceremony. So that's why I think people can and should take charge and do these things as they prefer. It was incredibly moving for me, at one point I was talking about how much DS means to us and I burst into tears. Such a wonderful day. If we'd done it in a church it would have been far less personal.

MrsMerryHenry · 29/05/2009 17:35

Are you saying my suggested alternative term isn't good enough for you, Spam?

MrsMerryHenry · 29/05/2009 17:36

Oh, and one of our godparents is an atheist. Work that one out.

Dizzyclarebear · 29/05/2009 17:37

So going back to your original question:

I personally would go with B) as A) still makes her think she's part of your child's life when you don't want her to be, but C) could really back fire on you if your Mum and this woman forgive and forget and she becomes a regular part of your life again.

B) is making it clear her behaviour is not acceptable and not an example you want set for your child, whilst I would think C) is a bit petty, and so also not the best example...

Oh, and if you're saying you'll wait until your child is old enough to make their own mind up - I've been to a teenager christening, far more moving than a baby one (it felt like everyone actually thought about what was being said rather than going through the motions so they could get christening gifts and an excuse for a party) and he picked his own Godparents, albeit with v. strong guidance from his Mum...

bigchris · 29/05/2009 17:37

lowrib, so did you stand at the front of the church and promise to bring your kids up in a faith you dont really believe in?
why cant you have special people in your kids lives like aunts and uncles even if they arent blood related?
and before your kids got christened didnt you and the godparents have to meet with the vicar and discuss your beleifs and affirmations? did you tell the vicar you're not religious?

LovelyTinOfSpam · 29/05/2009 17:47

bigchris I assumed that lowrib had some kind of non-religious ceremony? Maybe I assumed wrong.

And I can easily see how to have a religious ceremony when you're not religious is disrespectful to those who do believe.

Example - our two local primary schools are faith schools so if we want DD to go to school in walking distance we have to go to church. But if i were to go along and pretend to believe while everyone else was actually believing, it't taking the piss really isn't it. (BTW don't get me started on the school situation, it's another debate for another time and I will start ranting).

merry i agree that "Significant Non-Parental Other" or SNPO has a lovely ring to it, sorry i overlooked it earlier

PolkSaladLucie · 29/05/2009 17:49

Just that we chose to baptise our daughter in a formal Christian ceremony because we are Christians.

I actually do see a problem in picking and choosing elements of religious ceremonies out of context. I wouldn't take parts of other peoples' faith as it wouldn't have the same significance to me, and would, I feel, diminish the dedication they have to their faith.

bigchris · 29/05/2009 17:49

i know so many people who get married in church even though they arent Christians, I think it's pointless

LovelyTinOfSpam · 29/05/2009 17:55

For me personally, as someone brought up catholic and now an athiest, I couldn't have got married in church.

I would have felt that making my vows in front of god/his representative on earth etc would have devalued them as I simply don't believe in it. They're not just words, how can anyone say things they don't mean as part of their wedding vows?

Same with christening - how could I promise to bring DD up in christian faith when that is the last thing I'll be doing. However on that one I have told DH that if it is important to him and his parents she can be christened but I wouldn't want to say any of the stuff.

I feel very strongly that you shouldn't participate in religious activities that you actively don't believe in. It's just not on.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 29/05/2009 17:57

On the other hand DH says that most people don't feel strongly one way or the other, they don't actively believe or actively not believe, so for them it's fine to go along with the way things are traditionally done in this country, and he has a point too.

He says that my athiesm is effectively as strong a belief as a religious one. I can't be "meh" about it.

MrsMerryHenry · 29/05/2009 17:59

PolkSalad, my question was more about why it would bother you personally. I don't understand why you feel that it would "undermine" the decision you made to christen your daughter, as it has absolutely nothing to do with your decision.

For example, my faith means a great deal to me. DH and I were married in a church by a close friend who's a vicar. I agree with bigchris that it's silly for people to get married in church unless the faith means something to them, however the fact that people do this has no bearing on my own marriage. So I can't understand why you would feel that way about your DD's christening.

MrsMerryHenry · 29/05/2009 18:01

Glad you like my term, Spam, it's one of my best. Can I rest assured that you'll be adopting it for your secular naming ceremonies from here til eternity?

LovelyTinOfSpam · 29/05/2009 18:04

Do you have to be spiritual in some way for a naming ceremony?

If you're not why bother? (sorry that's probably a bit blunt!)

And ooh oooh oooh look:

"Rather than godparents, whose traditional role is to help guide the child in a Christian life, 'supporting adults' or 'mentors' (who may be friends or family) just need to say that they will be there for your child as he or she grows up and throughout their life in whatever way is needed"

lowrib · 29/05/2009 18:15

bigchris I certainly did not stand at the front of the church and promise to bring my kids up in a faith I don't really believe in!

We haven't got godparents for our DS as my partner was really anti. If he had been up for it too, I imagine we would have invented our own ceremony. As we are not religious nor married we have had to invent other ways of doing things which for many come through religious custom - e.g. in the absence of a wedding we have created other occasions for our families to meet.

The thing about religion is there are all sorts of customs and nice things - especially to do with family life - wrapped up with the religion. I think it's a shame to throw the baby out with the bath water and not continue any of the customs.

PolkSaladLucie you say "I actually do see a problem in picking and choosing elements of religious ceremonies out of context" but I have absolutely no problem with doing this - especially as this is exactly what the Christians have been doing for centuries!

The early Christians, for example, made free and easy use of the Roman myths to make themselves more acceptable to those they sought to convert (as did the Romans with the Greek myths before)
The Christmas story is based on Mithras, for example.

Why on earth shouldn't we?

LovelyTinOfSpam · 29/05/2009 18:22

I think what the others are irked about is people who do not believe, having religious ceremonies in church or other places of worship.

Civil ceremonies, naming ceremonies, anything done to celebrate life events and bring people together, I don't think anyone has a problem with those.

MrsMerryHenry · 29/05/2009 18:23

Spam - the Secular Society have info on naming ceremonies, I believe. I think someone came up with them as an alternative to a religious service.

I have to be blunt, I dont like your terms. I think mine has a certain...mmm, cache!

(can't be arsed to find French accented 'e')

Right-ho, am off out so catch you all later.

lowrib · 29/05/2009 18:30

Oh and about the name, personally I would have been happy with the term Godparent. Although for our family the role wouldn't be a religious one, it describes the role in a way that others understand instantly, and - probably more importantly - there doesn't seem to be a decent alternative. For me it's no different to celebrating Christmas as a non-Christian. We're partaking in the culture and tradition but missing out the religious bit.

I do understand people who wouldn't want to use the term though (my DP for one).

I had a little look on the net to see what alternatives there are - some people use 'Life Guardian' but that sounds a bit meh to me

These other ones made me giggle though

  • "Non specific Deity" parent
  • Back-up parent
  • Godless parent