To think that if you cannot afford free range chicken/turkey meat and eggs...

[LolaTheShowgirl]

...then don't buy at all?

I mean the suffering these birds go through in cramped, dirty sheds is unbelievable. There is usually no natural light and the birds are usually ill before they're culled.

If you can stomach it, please look at these:
WARNING: NOT NICE PICTURES!
HERE

Why does it make a difference whether or not Lola has a family? The point she's making is about animal welfare.

That's a bit like saying if you don't have a car you shouldn't have an opinion on the impact of cars on CO2 levels.

Lola the Boden comment was way out of line.

it's a lot easier to have principles, morals and ethics about everything you eat when there is only yourself to worry about

budgetting to feed one person is v v different to budgetting for a family of 4 , with growing children to feed well

Harley. I'll let you use that one if you like

reality... what you judged me as would depend on what shop you saw me in... in lidl my trolly is full of biscuits, crisps, suger, cheap bog roll etc wheras in the local supermarket it's full of fruit, veg, healthy snacks like rice cakes and oatcakes and loads of goats milk and yogurts as dd has food intolerances

in one shop i look like a contender for scummy mum of the year, in the other i think the checkout girls think i'm some sort of loony health freak

Its a shame you couldn't have said what you said in a less inflammatory way, op, but I agree with you completely.

I think your assumptions about what most Mumsnetters who live on a very tight food budget spend their money on otherwise is way off the mark though.

That's true, Lulu, but this thread has raised interesting comments about the fact that we are SO spoiled and lucky to live in a context where we can think it the norm, not a luxury, to have meat every day.

As I said earlier I don't agree that Lola's preference should be imposed on anyone, but we all know that cheap meat comes at a price. If we refuse to examine ourselves and our way of life, we live blindly and hurt others. Now, what's wrong with a bit of self-examination?

i agree that the debate is worht having and is interesting,what is uncalled for is the 'boden' commetns and the smuggery

Yes, I think Lola has a lot to learn about communication!

'Yes, I think Lola has a lot to learn about communication!'

and maturity.

Reality, I'll judge you right now.

OP. No you're not being unreasonable in my opinion.

If people can't afford cruelty free meat and dairy produce then I would suggest they eat less and less often. There are plenty of nutritious and cheap foods around [pulses] and plenty of recipes that make a a little meat/dairy produce go a very long way.

This is a topic that various animal welfare organisations have dealt with. At the supermarket door shoppers are very concerned about animal welfare and agree with many of the points raised on questionnaires etc. Yet once inside they head straight for the "cheap meat".

Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall's suggestion of webcams on all the meat/dairy sections so that consumers could actually see how their meat, milk, eggs etc were being produced met with a deafening silence from the supermarkets.

If you want good quality cruelty free meat check for butchers who use locally sourced and locally slaughtered meat - preferably from an abattoir that pays an hourly rate and doesn't pay on "piece rate" or try here or here or here. The latter doesn't even charge for delivery if you spend over £45 - although you can make a donation towards reducing carbon emissions.

Leave Lola alone, poor cow was only saying what she though and is having a terrible time over it.

Hmm. Really unappealing post to my mind. What if you like meat? What if these nutritious recipes made with butter beans etc make you want to gag. There are all sorts of problems associated with being poor. Whether they are solved or ameliorated by pictures of ill treated chickens is another matter. Was that what you were trying to do? Help?

I have bought cheap meat when I felt I had no financial choice, ( I may have been wrong) and tbh had other things on my mind than ethical farming.

When we had 2 incomes coming in and felt able to ( and after I had read about the treatment of chickens and sweatshop labour in particular) we made huge changes to the way we shopped. We used farmers markets where we could and bought free range meat and eggs. We also stopped buying clothes from supermarkets and primark and mainained the habit I had been forced to adopt in time of financial hardship of buying second hand clothes.

We have hit hard times again recently but have managed to continue shopping ethically, mainly by buying less. We have a roast dinner once a month, 2 tops but we have to give something up for that. I buy cheap cuts of meat from a local farm or farmers market ( living in Dorset helps with that, I admit that is not easy for everyone.) We eat meat once or twice a week. It has taken a huge adjustment to do that as I think edam has said. We no longer buy biscuits and treats and I spend longer in the kitchen. That is easier for me out of term time and I have to admit to the odd ready meal in term time which I suspect breaks my rules but shoot me I am human. I can see that eating like this is harder for people who have to work long hours all year. I only have to work hard in short stints and have weekends free.

I think it is very easy for people to say quite smugly that you can eat ethically on a budget. My dp if left to his own devices would live in tinned soup, sausages, pies, fishfinger and chips. He could probably feed himself for about the same we spend on our dog.

leftieluvvie i like your post, you are very honest and seem to be doing great on a budget. We can all do this if we put our minds to it. No one has to eat rubbish even if they are on a budget. I know, I have been really hard-up in the past.

I used to buy free range meat but we don't have the money now. I don't actually LIKE free range chicken; it's stringy and even if you spend £7.00 then it never lasts past one meal. I know it's selfish because the birds suffer, but I do not know how on earth I could feed a family of four without buying 'normal' meat on the budget I'm on. I couldn't feed my DH veggie food or cut back on his meat intake because he would eat two dinners a night and still be hungry; he's really thin too so it's not as though he doesn't need it. It's a dilemma if you can't afford free range; but I do think OP is taking it a bit far to suggest we should stop eating meat entirely if you can't afford to buy it. OP obviously CAN afford to buy it.

OP - YANBU! I managed it on basic benefits alone. It can be done
Compassion in World Farming

THe best use for cheap chickens is, of course, to make stock with them, make lentil and vegetable soup with the cheap chicken stock and feed it to self-righteous vegetarian twunts.
Then tell them about it the next day .

for those interested in doing something different but only having a yard can I throw into the mix quail. Really easy and cheap to keep, can be kept on concrete with bedding, lay regularly and only take six weeks to reach maturity for eating.

Stringy? I can't say that I've noticed that. To me it tastes like chicken should.

I don't think I could get 4 meals out of a chicken but I certainly can get 2. and possible a sandwich.

Possibly.

Bronze, won't the foxes get them?

Never has an OP so annoyed me. Ignorant, rude and completely thoughtless.

Not only is it completely unfeasible to expect people who are feeding themselves on a shoestring to spend a huge portion of their food budget on free range, organic (pah) food, the OP evidently has absolutely no idea of the main drivers in people who are living on the breadline.

Aside from the fact that they may only have about £20 to feed a family for a week (for instance). Some people do not have any access to transport. So if they live in a deprived area they cannot access the wonderful farmers markets or chi-chi little shops where free range eggs are £1.50 a dozen. They probably have to shop at Farm Foods or a similar food shop, where even battery eggs are expensive, and free range ones are prohibitive. As for meat, they probably wouldn't have a selection, like your local Waitrose, of cheap organic cuts of meat, they would probably have Danish bacon, cheap chicken drumsticks, possibly battery chicken breasts (which would costs a fortune anyway) and crappy sausages. Whatever is on offer anyway would be far more expensive than a frozen pizza, anyway.

There is a very rigid 2-tier food system in this country. Comfortably off, middle class educated people eat organic and free range and ethically sourced foods and are praised. The poor eat the mass-produced crap that is within their budget and are ostracised for having to do so.

The media doesn't hugely help, I am thinking of the much hyped Jamie Oliver 'campaign', where we were encouraged to scoff at stupid people who fed their children kebabs.