to think friend is making life unnecessarily hard on herself by never letting her dd, 2.5, watch TV, when she has a newborn as well?

[emkana]

Friend rang today, stressed, trying to get her 2.5 year old to have a midday rest looking at books by herself. I gently suggested TV but she didn't see that as an option, which made me feel a bit silly. I'm all for limiting TV but when I was in her situation the TV was a lifesaver! And it hasn't made my children into couch potatoes at all, now they are 7 and 5 (the older ones) they hardly watch TV at all, because they are able to do all sorts of other stuff.

I have no problem using TV as a babysitter sometimes. It's a life saver when I am trying to cook tea or wash up, much better than having DD hanging off my legs crying around a hot stove.

I certainly don't have it on all day, and there are some days where I feel that I have used the TV a bit too much, but hey ho, we aren't perfect parents and I find it hard to be chipper and creative all the time. Sometimes we both need to chill out.

It was especially useful when DD was poorly a couple of weeks ago. She was too ill to do anything else except lie on the sofa and whimper, and I felt that the TV alleviated the boredom for her a bit (she is nearly 2 btw). She loves ITNG and has lots of the toys. I always swore I would never get into merchandising but she has really engaged with the characters and aside from the TV she loves playing with the toys.

That said we usually just record certain programmes and let her watch those, I only really let her watch things that I can stomach, i.e. ITNG, Charlie and Lola, Pepper Pig and Big Cook Little Cook. I can't stand a lot of the programmes.

Things have moved on since I last posted and there have been several of the "lets see how long it lasts" type of comments which I find strange - why are so many of you sneery about people who don't want tv and so sceptical about it being possible.

If a child has never watched tv and doesn't see the parents doing so they won't even know what the tv is for (esp at 2.5 as in the op) and so will be happy with games/reading/singing etc. I do agree that having outdoor space will tend to make it easier for children to have a variety of things to do although that won't help with the bfing issue.

Just because I choose not to switch the tv on doesn't mean that I expect everyone else to do the same but it would be nice to have it recognised as a perfectly vaild and easily acheivable choice.

There was a thread on here recently about children not being able to remember the cbeebies characters they had watched for hours which would suggest that it's the parents that are benefiting rather than the child but thats their choice to make.

I didn't see that thread Goldrock, mine have always happily discussed shows they've seen in the same way as books we've read. I would have thought most young children of average intelligence could do the same.

I would never have got anything done without thomas the tank!strangely now aged 15 ds doesn't really watch tv

I definitely don't want my kids watching too much tv but a limited amount of 45mins to an hour a day I think is fine. Everyone needs to chill out every so often and do something mindless! My ds aged 1.4 has no interest at all (which is a bit annoying when he is clinging to my legs during dinner making time and I am trying to distract him with CBeebies) but I'm sure that won't last. I know a woman who lets her children watch 2 six min episodes of Pingu once a week - that is a bit OTT I think!

I am realistic about tv for older kids, I used to enjoy watching it as a kid, it's just that I want to keep DS off it as long as possible while he's still so little and his brain is developing. I also don't like people smugly saying 'ooh, you just wait, you'll HAVE to stick them in front of the tv' or 'you can't do something creative all the time,' well sure, it's not like I'm constantly making up activities for DS 2.7 but so far with 9 week old DD we get by without tv, there are other things to do and talk about, I just don't find it hard at all without it..

Goldrock, most of us have tvs we like to watch and so it is odd to make a point of not allowing a child to watch it. If you don't watch tv it isn't odd. If I have friends who don't watch tv I think it's normal that their kids don't. It's when people who watch tv themselves but worry about the amount their kids watch that it is odd really.
If it's not there you don't miss it parent or child. If it is there but you're putting a lot of wasted energy into feeling awful every time it's on then you (anyone who does this) need to chill out!

I don't have tv, and it's not because I have nannies and play equipment in fact quite the reverse - when I left exp I couldn't afford the licence. I don't miss it in the least, I have to say. As for addiction I agree with cory's comments, depends on the child rather than the upbringing, ds will sit in front of anything if at friends, whereas dd will watch a bit then wander off. I don't like the assumption that everyone has to watch and if not they're either odd or snobbish

Urgh it bugs me it really does - as Plimple says, not so much if the family don't have a TV, but if they do and the adults watch it but it's not allowed for the kids - so unfair! It needs to be in moderation like anything of course, but I can't see that it's harmful if it's quality telly or films in moderate amounts. There is also the factor of cultural integration at nursery/school - you are out on limb if you don't have a clue what your classmates are talking about. OK that's not everything but it is something to consider.

DS watches telly a bit, usually just mornings and evenings for an hour or so, and the occasional DVD. Some cbeebies but also adult stuff that he enjoys, eg discovery channel and david attenborough. But he will often switch the telly off himself and ask to do something else, or have it on and not really watch it because he'd rather play. Letting your child watch telly does not necessarily create some kind of goggle-eyed vacuous dunderhead.

It is also excellent for chillout time and if you have to get something done eg make a phone call or have a quick shower.

I really about one couple we know who are soooo smug because their child has never seen a second of telly. They have a massive flatscreen and the dad in particular is a total sci-fi-addicted couch potato! Hypocrites!

"Mine love snuggling on the couch and watching a good movie with a huge family bag of crisps and maltesers whilst i play happily on my laptop"

You know, that's so reassuring to hear, barnselybelle. You let your kids enjoy tv (as well as do other things, of course), you let them eat crisps and chocolate now and again. In other words, you let your kids be kids. So bored of hearing self-righteous comments about no tv, no chocolate, no crisps - and only rice cakes households. Poor children!
Normality still reigns in some parts; thank goodness for that.

but muffle and plimple, I like a glass of wine now and again, but it's not all right for the kids! There are different rules for parents vs kids..

Golly - please read my post (and those of other posters who done watch TV) properly before sugesting we are bing self righteous or unrealistic or not letting our kids be kids, or that we can only manage it because we have pots of money and nannies!

I just thought I'd detail what works for my family and why, as I thought a couple of posters had asked out of genuine interest. I'm not judging those who let their kids watch TV, and agree with goldrocks (I think it was you!) who finds the sneering "oh, she wont last a week" type comments a bit well, smug, a sort of reverse snobbery. Plenty of people manage just fine without TV, and plenty of people watch TV...different strokes surely?

Mila Mae, I can't really understand your point about watching DVDs on laptops - how is it more antisocial than watching TV? We have a biggish laptop screen, we set it on a table , and the kids sit together on the sofa and watch Bob the builder or whatever it is.

Someone wondered about the 'educational benefits' of watching DVDs repeatedly over watching CBeebies.

We don't buy 'educational' DVDs - just things like Bob the builder, Peppa Pig etc.. (so its more a matter of avoiding certain types of cartoons/programs, than of choosing 'educational' ones)

I don't think there is any particular educational benefit of these over Cbeebies at all (apart from lack of advertising as detail below!) - although for small children repetition is a useful learning tool. DD (4) likes angelina ballerina, but she often doesn't really understand the story line until she watched an episode a few times and asked a few questions about it. I don't think the repetition has done them any harm at all, and they certainly don't seem to minds it, so I've never considered it a problem.

All that said, I don't think its unreasonable to let kids watch TV (within reason), and I think that most families without TV are quite happy to live and let live...

The two are not at all comparable, gemzooks, ie TV in moderate amounts is not BAD for children; alcohol in any amount IS.

"watching DVDs on laptops - how is it more antisocial than watching TV?"

I presume what Mila Maw meant was that by their sheer size the whole family can't be involved in watching a dvd on a laptop - so they are 'stuck in front of it', whereas they can on a tv. Watching a good film on tv can be quality family time, IMO.

I hate the phrase 'making it hard for yourself'. My mum uses it. What it means is: 'I know better than you do' when what people need to hear when they're struggling with kids is 'oh dear, sorry you're having a shit time, what can I do to help' People have to find their own way. Even if I agree with you about TV

gataeu- I agree that watching a movie together can be good family time (better still when my DCs are older as they ask too many questions at the mo! )...we watch together using the laptop...I'm sure a flat screen owner would be apalled, but its ok for us

TV is a Godsend to me when I, or DD are poorly. It also calms her down completely when she has worked herself up into a frenzy and is a fantastic distraction. She also learns so much from certain programmes and I think Cebeebes is educational.

I just don't get the no TV rule at all. Genuinely interested in why some parents ban it.

Just can't see the point of huddling round a laptop when you can sit in comfort and watch a tv. Why do you do this? Am interested, not being aggressive.

Before I had DS I was adamant that I wouldn't let any child of mine sit in from of the idiot box mesmerised by a programme.

Ha.. what toss. If it wasn't for the TV i'd never get anything done!

He only watches age-appropriate programmes, and we have a PVR to record what I consider worthwhile programmes on CBeebies (Tikkabilla, Something Special etc) and ITNG is part of his bedtime routine and always has been.

He's getting the idea of counting/letters/shapes etc, and I think at least some of this is down to TV..

I certainly have learned a hell of a lot of random information from TV and will encourage a certain amount of TV watching.

Gateau - lol at the scene you paint we don't huddle, we just sit on the sofa, with the laptop on a coffee table a metre or two away. Its a biggish laptop - but yes, smaller than TVs these days (although would have been quite acceptable 10 years ago!).

And the reason we do it - well, we don't have a TV (for reasons previously stated). DH woudl dearly love to have a data projector )so we could watch 'big screen' on the wall) one day...but money does not allow at the mo.

Astrophe, watching dvds on a laptop is the same as watching dvds on a tv; the fact that you have a keyboard and mouse and not a remote control is the only difference.

I suppose it's just where you are along the TV to no-TV continuum. I will let my kids watch when they're older, but I really think if I let my 2.7 year old watch regularly, it is a slippery slope, after all he is totally happy with books, toys and let's pretend games. I wouldn't have a TV ban, as he and DD get older they can watch in a regulated way and not hours and hours, like I did as a kid. Of course it has uses as an educational tool and for fun, there are lovely films and dramas for kids etc, just don't like it for very young children, same as sweets, I don't give DS sweets but I wouldn't forbid him from having them at a party or whatever, and as he gets to school age and knows what they are he will be allowed them occasionally..

suppose I prefer so -called 'snobbery', to 'reverse snobbery' because whilst neither is good, at least snobbery at its best is people striving to be something better and feeds economic growth, whereas reverse snobbery is not striving at all and trying to bring those who do strive down. (discuss!)

Gem, so you realise how pathetic your last post makes you look! You are indeed a snob and an ignorant one at that. In your very simplistic, sweeping statement you say that parents who are perplexed by other parents not letting their kids watch tv do not strive to be something better and do not contribute towards economic growth - and and all snobs do.
WHAT???!
Really can't believe you've just said this.
Maybe you should let your young child watch tv, to save him from absorbing this short of utter shite!

slow down, it's kind of tongue in cheek. all I'm saying is people tend one way or the other...

and I'm not saying what you claim, either. I'm talking about snobbery in general, as a separate point, and I'm also saying that both snobbery and reverse snobbery are bad, it's just that reverse snobbery has always personally annoyed me more, as it is even more negative. I don't think that makes me either ignorant or a snob and I resent your aggressive tone.