AIBU to really dislike a 4 year old?

[Worriedunfortunately]

Need some perspective please.

I've been friends with a group of women who all have children the same age as my DD, for about 5 years. They are all incredibly nice and we're very good friends, see each other weekly at least, and have supported each other through tough times.

All the children have their squabbles and fight over sharing etc, usually their parents or me if it's my DD, will step in, or one of us will remind them all to play nicely.

My one friend's DD goes to the same school as her (the others dont). The problem is she is really horrible. I know thats a terrible thing to say about a 4 year old but she is spiteful. Whereas the other kids will fight over Barbies / toys she will call my DD 'stupid' or say when my DD gets to school 'She cant sit here with us'. She tells my DD all the time at school that no one is allowed to play with her.

It's getting silly now, we've spoken to the school and they've spoken to her mother (about the child's attitude in general), but this is the third time we've had to go in over it.

I know I should just speak to the mother myself (she is a very good friend) but I just can't bring myself to. When they've been here for coffee I've seen her DD hit her in the face, scream, shout and generally act horribly for 30 minutes or more at a time. Her mum just asks her not to!!! In a really soft voice!! No repercusions, nothing. When her DD scratched my DD down the arm on purpose she asked her to apologise to my DD. The girl refused. If it was me I wouldnt have left the house until my DD had done so, but eventually after asking her to about 10 times she just said 'Well Im very disappointed in you X'

When her DD hit her in the face with a doll (on purpose because her mum said she had to share), she told her off and said she couldnt have a smiley face on her chart when they got home then two minutes later because she cried said she could!!

I'm absolutely at the end of my tether. I dont want to upset my friend but Im so fed up with this child, not just for the way she treats my DD but because she treats her mum that way too. I just want to shake my friend!!

I've seen her DD scream and cry over the most ridiculous things, my DD once handed her a cup she wanted and she screamed and shouted and cried for over 20 minutes because she'd wanted to get the cup herself! Her mum offered to put the cup back where it was so she could get it but even that didnt work (personally I'd have put her on the naughty step or sent her to her bedroom!)

Any advice? BTW shes an only child and they only want one too. I'm thinking of pulling my daughter out of that school because it worries me its only going to get worse as they get older.

Im sorry but i think you need to bite the bullet and talk to your friend...............She really needs to hear how unpleasent her child is being and the fact that you are thinking of withdrawing your child. Why do you let this child come round to play if they are so awful to you dd? I would refuse to have the child in my house if they were attacking my child.

Don't let her come round with her child.

Ask the school to sit them separately.

Lottie - I think you're right I just don't know how to do it.

I still have her round because her mum and I are good friends. I have stopped it a bit now though because it was upsetting DD. I just kept thinking 'any minute now she'll stop her DD, she'll tell her off, any minute now...' but she doesnt, or, to be fair to her when she doe her DD just totally ignores her.

My DD keeps asking me why her DD is so horrible and I've just told her to ignore her and that sometimes people are just like that. Argh, dont know what to do.

I think you are well within your rights to be upset..... and i think being honest and straight up is best answer..... i had to do it a while back and it made it easier. My friends dd is the most unpleasant child i have come across and being a teacher i have come across many!!!!

I would just reduce and reduce the visits and if the mum asks why then you have the chance to say that her dd has been upsetting your dd? Surely she must be aware there is a problem if the school have contacted here three times, she sounds like she has her head in the sand like an ostrich and its about time someone pulled her head out and told her what the problem was and to blardy well do something about it!

YANBU but I also feel deeply for this child as she isn't being taught any boundaries at all which is going to have a terrible effect on her social abilities.

If she is a VERY good friend try and discuss it with her but I would expect a poor reaction TBH.

I think it sounds like the mother is more at fault than the DD (who is after all only 4 and will push boundaries to see what she can get away with).
OK some DC are more difficult than others but the mother should at least do things like take her DD home if the DD starts bullying other children.

yanbu but try to remember this is your friends fault and not the childs. I would tell her as I think she is being very unfair to her child. Her dd will probably end up with no friends if her mum does not put a stop to it.

would subtle parenting hints with a bit of faux empathy work? eg "oh it's terrible when they do that isn't it? when dd does it I x/y/z. It seems to be working." or would that just be too transparent?

We've had this problem too and I and several other friends have resorted to telling the child off ourselves.

I don't care what the mother thinks,I think it's important for my daughter to see that this behaviour is unacceptable.

The other mothers feel the same way.

Not trying to do a stealth thing but there are a couple of other points which also make me feel sorry for the child.

She is gorgeous, and I mean drop dead beautiful model like, I think because of this everyone (in the family) does everything she wants.

My friend had a very difficult childhood and has told me that she wants her DDs to be the opposite, so I think she is bending over that way far too much. The reason I feel sorry for the DD (sometimes!!) is because as she gets older it wont be seen as 'cute' anymore and surely people will avoid her because shes not very pleasant?

School have had to speak to her a lot of times about the dd (not just to do with my child) and I know she gets put in time out a lot. My friend did say they were going to try being more consistent with her at home.

Its really strange, she'll say to me 'Oh shes not wearing the right school uniform today because she wouldnt let me put it on her' and I'm thinking What???? Shes 4, just grab her and dress her - its a uniform!

I've spoken to one other friend in the group who has also seen this child behave that way and she said not to discuss with my friend because she cant see her taking it well. Is there anyway of phrasing it that isn't 'YOu child is satan'??

The problem is that parents are blamed when the child is at this age, but as the child gets older people blame the child. I know a 9 year old who's attitude stinks, when asked by her mum to say thank a a party she shouted OH THANK YOU THEN! GOD! and flounced off. It needs to be stopped one way or another or child will have serious problems.

blimey, this is the exact situation i had with dd. the mum went into school, without letting me know & requested that my dd & hers be kept together because they were such good friends. mum also told loads of people that me & me were best friends, which did me no favours as mum had fallen out with everyone else in the village.

luckily, i managed to distance myself enough that other mums & kids were still friends with us! it was all getting a bit desperate as the mum then had a massive fall out with someone over their cleaning business & called in solicitors etc.

i just gently tried to extricate myself. what made it worse was dd feeling rejected by her 'best friend', but i couldn't let her continue being friends witha kid who would use physical violence as a first resort when she didn't get her own way. nor did i like her seeing a mother-daughter relationship where the daughter screamed abuse at the muj & mum let her run out the house into the road!

our problem was neatly solved by us emigrating, but that's a bit drastic. had we been staying, i would have asked the class teacher NOT to sit them together, but as every other mum in the class also asked that, the poor girl suffered. in fact, she has now moved schools, as no-one else would be friends with her.

the mum is convinced it's because other parents were ganging up against them, and doesn't see it's because of her daughter's violence. you have to thin carefully about this. you may well be about to lose a friend, but if this girl doesn't learn better social skills, she will be deeply unhappy until she's old enough to work it out for herself. can yu try saying to the girl, in front of mum, thing slike, 'dd won't want to play with you if you don't say sorry. you will be lonely if you can't be nice'. perhaps mum will start to see the consequences of her actions.

as others say, it's the mum's fault, but that doesn't make it any easier to have the child around.

we're returning to the uk for a visit soon & dd is having a play date with this other girl. one afternoon should be ok, but i'm gritting my teeth already.

i think you have to bite the bullet, and be prepared to lose the mum as a friend. if she is really horrible to your dd, I would say. 'I'm sorry, but that behaviour is unacceptable in this house. If you behave like that again then you will not be welcome here and your mummy will take you home. Now please apologise to DD'.
If she doesn't apologise/stop then ask your friend to take her home.

Worried I've seen this before when the parents over compensate for their own bad childhood and worry that telling off their child may damage them. The thing is your friend may have no idea that it is HER that is causing her daughter behaviors.
AS she is a good friend I'd invite her for coffee just the two of you and be honest about how miserable her child behavior is making your DD. If she takes it bad would you really want a friend who feels that her daughter is so superior that it is acceptable the upset your daughter?

I would speak to the mum but focus on your DD... and the effect her daughters behaviour has on her, and explain that its not right.
dont slate her dd or be negative about her, just try to be helpful... easier said than done i know!

good luck

I've had a similar situation with a friend at school, my DD and hers are in the same class and I really get on well with the mum, but her DD is the most unpleasant and rude child I have met.

The way I tackled it was to invite round other children so my DD made a number of best friends and other really good firends. She still plays with my friends DD occasionally, but its not exclusive anymore and she will avoid her. I see my friend when the girls are at school, so I have not lost the friendship.

I would not recommend talking to her about her child as you may find she will be really defensive and touchy about it. In general if a child is out of control the parent knows what they are doing is unacceptable, but they are choosing not to sort out the behaviour themselves. My SIL has had this with her childrens sleeping and eating issues - she is still being woken by them all 15yrs, 12yrs, 10yrs and 4 yrs - but will not take advice or seek any help to sort out the problems as she believes she knows best as their mother.

Yes. i agree, its really sounds like the mum doesnt reprimand the dd enough. She should tell her dd to Stop crying now, or.... and instill some sanction,, `naughty step or something. I wouldnt let my child go on crying about wanting to do a task that another child did. Thats ridiculous.. she is a bit too spoilt IMHO> !!

I know it's hard, but I do think that you should try and protect your dd.

Straight forward stuff like 'do not hit x', 'we do not do that in this house', etc etc in a matter-of-fact tone of voice. Not telling off, just a fact.

Her dd may be a nightmare and spoilt but it is important that your dd doesn't learn it is acceptable for other people to treat her like this.

Keep on board with the school and sort it out as a together.

Shes not getting helpful advice either (I dont think), a counsellor friend of hers says she shouldnt put the DD in time out whens shes screaming / hitting etc because it will make her feel 'abandoned'.

Saddest thing (and this was my fault), I was trying to be so diplomatic that when her DD did something bad to my DD I made them both apologise to each other. Afterwards when they'd gone, my DD said to me 'Mummy, why do you love X more than me?' I was totally amazed and obviously quickly denied this, asked her why she thought this and she said 'Because I didnt do anything wrong but you still made me apologise'. I then had to explain about guests and diplomacy etc, but then told her that actually mummy thinks X isnt behaving very nicely at all and is a very naughty girl.

I mean, sort it out together.

Also encourage other friendships over and above this one.

I experienced almost exactly the same situation. Eventually I removed my ds from all situations where the other child was, including the nursery. He was 3. Children shouldn't have to be brave when they're tiny. I was also desperate that my ds should recognise this negative behaviour as unsual and utterly unacceptable. I was concerned that spending regualr time with this other child, whose mother is lovely but behaves as if her ds's behaviour is normal, might give my ds the impression that violence is an acceptable part of growing up. Just quietly distance yourself from the family.

Sounds horrible. HOwever, while I think I would be annoyed with the child, mostly I'd be bloody furious with the mum. The child is just doing what she has been taught it's OK to do. Her mum is doing her absolutely no favours whatsoever. Poor kid doesn't stand a chance.

I'd just avoid the child and the mum as much as possible. Unless the mum changes her behaviour pretty drastically I'm afraid I can't see her child behaving very differently in the future.

Sadly your daughter should come before your friendship,her happiness is far more important to you than this woman, surely?
either tell her,straight, or dont have anything to do with them again.
Kind of similar situation, but my dd is 12! Her freind was sending her abusive messages on face book, i was freinds with her mum, my dd got very upset (very nasty messages, and my dd has benn seriously ill) so i rang other girls mum (my freind) and told her in no uncertain terms what i would do, to both of them, if she didnt sort the b out.
Possibly not the best thing to do, but my daughter comes first, as should yours.

I think mostly when we dislike a child, it's actually the child's behaviour and their parents' inability or unwillingness to deal with it that we are disliking. The child, with proper handling, would behave very differently.