AIBU to really dislike a 4 year old?

[Worriedunfortunately]

Need some perspective please.

I've been friends with a group of women who all have children the same age as my DD, for about 5 years. They are all incredibly nice and we're very good friends, see each other weekly at least, and have supported each other through tough times.

All the children have their squabbles and fight over sharing etc, usually their parents or me if it's my DD, will step in, or one of us will remind them all to play nicely.

My one friend's DD goes to the same school as her (the others dont). The problem is she is really horrible. I know thats a terrible thing to say about a 4 year old but she is spiteful. Whereas the other kids will fight over Barbies / toys she will call my DD 'stupid' or say when my DD gets to school 'She cant sit here with us'. She tells my DD all the time at school that no one is allowed to play with her.

It's getting silly now, we've spoken to the school and they've spoken to her mother (about the child's attitude in general), but this is the third time we've had to go in over it.

I know I should just speak to the mother myself (she is a very good friend) but I just can't bring myself to. When they've been here for coffee I've seen her DD hit her in the face, scream, shout and generally act horribly for 30 minutes or more at a time. Her mum just asks her not to!!! In a really soft voice!! No repercusions, nothing. When her DD scratched my DD down the arm on purpose she asked her to apologise to my DD. The girl refused. If it was me I wouldnt have left the house until my DD had done so, but eventually after asking her to about 10 times she just said 'Well Im very disappointed in you X'

When her DD hit her in the face with a doll (on purpose because her mum said she had to share), she told her off and said she couldnt have a smiley face on her chart when they got home then two minutes later because she cried said she could!!

I'm absolutely at the end of my tether. I dont want to upset my friend but Im so fed up with this child, not just for the way she treats my DD but because she treats her mum that way too. I just want to shake my friend!!

I've seen her DD scream and cry over the most ridiculous things, my DD once handed her a cup she wanted and she screamed and shouted and cried for over 20 minutes because she'd wanted to get the cup herself! Her mum offered to put the cup back where it was so she could get it but even that didnt work (personally I'd have put her on the naughty step or sent her to her bedroom!)

Any advice? BTW shes an only child and they only want one too. I'm thinking of pulling my daughter out of that school because it worries me its only going to get worse as they get older.

Have to say that we fell out with some really quite good friends over their children's behaviour, that was allowed to go unchecked in the most inappropriate circumstances and led to several trips to hospital for my son.

Worried - I used to try to smooth things over with one particular boy, 'Oh I'm sure he didn't mean it,' sort of thing. DD1 found it utterly confusing as there seemed to be one rule for this boy and one rule for everyone else.

Now I tell him off.

I'm afraid you're going to have to bite the bullet and speak to your friend. Before you do so, I would mention to the other friends in your group what you're going to say and why.

I'm not saying this to bitch behind her back but because she will mention it to them and it would be good to have their backing.

At the end of the day, you might lose a friend but this is your daughter's well-being.

And, of course, it is the fault of the parents.

Btw, I have a 4yo dd who is an only child and she would never behave like this. Because she knows her boundaries and the difference between right and wrong behaviour.

Thank you for all your responses. I will definitely start saying something because it is confusing for my DD that there is one rule for her and another for this girl.

Unfortunately, my DD wants to see this girl. She really likes her. Its heartbreaking really, she goes up to her to hug her etc and the other girl just ignores her, won't even say hi and goodbye most of the time. Thats why I havent stopped visists totally because my DD wants to see her.

I thought I'd got till she was 12 odd till this sort of thing started happening!

Haven't got time to read it all but wanted to try and help.

I think when it comes to things like this the well being of your child has to come before your friendship.

I would speak to school and if it happens in your house, I think you should say something to the other child. The mum might be greatful - especially if the child takes notice - or she might not and then falls out with you, but you might be in a better position than you are now.

Some people just won't hear bad things about their child. One girl told my dd she would cut her head off if she did a certain thing again. My DD was very upset, when I told the mother she bit my head off and pretty much accused my dd of lying.

Yes, I have no problem telling off other people's children. As, I would hope, they would have no problem telling of my dd.

Hi, I have no advice as I'm not sure what to do myself but I have a similar issue with a nearly 3 year old who my daughter (2.8) knows. This child can be hitting other children, snatching things and generally behaving in a way I wouldn't tolerate for one second and her parents appear to have no clue that someone needs to say NO in whatever way will get through to this child. Last time I saw her she was sitting next to another child and whacking them over the head. I asked the father if he would like me to pick her up and remove her from the situation and he said 'NO!' in a really arsey way. So I am clearly not dealing with it right. My daughter just looks shocked and says "Why is X doing that, Mummy?" etc which I don't have any very sensible answers for (apart from "Her parents are idiots"). So, er, just posting to say I bet there are loads of people out there in similar situations!

I have let a good friendship slide when I decided I just couldn't stand the friend's kid.

The kid is/was a brat. No other way of putting it, yes there were probably extenuating circumstances but none of those were mine (or my DS's!) problem. I got sick of the constant injuries inflicted on DS and the breakages when they would come here. She didn't want to discipline him and would get very shirty if anyone else ever told him off.

I just stopped calling her and was busy when she called me. It wasn't worth the effort anymore. Thankfully her DS is no longer at the same school as mine.

The child I was talking about is the child of my very best friend from school. I must admit it puts me off seeing them.

I can't believe peoples things have been broken and their children hospitalised!! What kind of parents are these!!!??? I'm in a bad mood now

jung- it was worse than that- he would lie bare-faced about things and his parents would believe his account over anybody else's, including mine, and then say there must have been some mistake. It was mesmeric to watch this kid just winding them around his finger. At times you could tell that even he thought it was wrong, but he was deeply confused about why his blatant lies were believed.

I was hauled up at school once by one such darling 12 year old precious child- had to have a face to face (quite accusatory as well) with his mum, sister and his class tutor. About five minutes in, mum realised that her son had been telling massive porkies (kid's body language was seriously giving him away, and his story changed every time he told it), but did she apologise and make him do same? Did she heck!

I feel for you! I had a friend who was exactly the same with both her DDs. She never told the eldest off (youngest was still a baby), would let her stand on a table in the middle of a restaurant screaming, would sigh and say 'oh nameofchild, please don't do that' as she was punching her baby sister, kicking, biting and screaming.

If she ever did tell the child off, she'd immediately apologise a minute later and say she was so sorry for shouting....

In the end, I couldn't face meeting up with her. She's a lovely person, but her children were becoming feral. Thankfully we live a little way away from each other and children are at different schools, so situation isn't so bad.

This is a tricky one, because talking to her could lead to things getting heated and comments being made that are later regretted - no-one likes to have their parenting criticised however good or bad it is.

Could you write her a letter? That way you could calmly and clearly lay out exactly why her daughter's behaviour is jeopardising your friendship and potentially causing you to move your DDs school. It would be easier to write how you can see parenting can be difficult for her but as a friend you need to tell her that you are worried and need to be open with her.

If you are feeling really brave you could recommend your friend tries to access a parenting course, such as Positive Parenting, or Confident Parents Confident Kids.

If they're both at school then surely it would be easy enough not to socialise with this woman and her daughter? If you really like the woman perhaps you could arrange an evening out now and again. There is no law making you bring your children together, indeed it seems very ill advised to subject your daughter to it when you know spitefulness will happen and that the parent is ineffectual.

As for the school issue, you have no option other than to keep telling the teacher if your daughter raises further concerns; the teacher is the one there, they are the ones who should deal with it in a professional manner.

I wouldn't say anything. Your friend has no doubt witnessed you disciplining your own dd and has been spoken to by the school so she knows she isn't doing the best to help her dd. You either say something and lose the friendship permanently or limit the contact in the hope that her dd does finally improve her behaviour (maybe not until older). The other alternative is just to have adult contact - you get together with your friend for a drink or dinner in the evening.

With close friends I have no problem with them discipling my ds and I do the same with their dcs.

YANBU , i have let one friendship slide too , because her 3 yr old son kept pushing and pinching my DD .The last straw was when he pinched my DD so hard on the back of her neck,he'd taken the skin off , there was a bloodied mark the size of an adult thumb print. She was screaming and spitting with pain.
The mother is really lovely , but she just put it down to ''boys games''. I have not let my daughter near him since.

I would not tackle her mum.For one thing she clearly CAN'T control her child.When the incident's happen at school it is the school's responsibility to deal with it.But that side if things isn't teally your business.What is your business is that they protect your child. - the school has a duty of care to protect your child , insist this happens put your concerns in writing if need be.
Secondly don't arrange out of school meet ups with her and her DD.If you value the friendship with her mum ,then do grown-up things during school hours.Personally I would try and do this because it sounds as if she could use a friend right now.

Jung- I had to whip my son off on one occasion after his "friend" violently shoved him into a concrete post, causing an inch-long deep after they'd been asked to clear up by boy's grandpa- my son did so, he didn't want to. My son sustained an inch-long rather deep cut on the back of his head (they were about 8 at the time). Needed 4 stitches. The parents just picked the kid up and showed him the back of my son's head as it bled copiously into the sink and said "see what you've done". He didn't give a sh1t and there was no discernible telling off.

The thing is the mother really is lovely, honestly she is a wonderful friend and would do anything for anyone. Its just she can't seem to control her daughter. She's really intelligent too so I just don't get it.

The bit that gets me is the spitefulness, I've watched her DD take all my DDs toys and hide behind the sofa so my DD (and her mother) oouldnt see what she was doing. And the way she just ignores my DD if she talks to her. Even when she does this in front of her parents they don't make her say hi or bye, which I would (wonders - am I a tyrant mum??)

The thing with the cup was crazy. She said to her mum, who was sat down trying to eat something, that she wanted a cup that was on the mantlepiece. My DD jumped up and got it for her. She went mental, screaming and crying because she'd wanted to get the cup rather than my DD. My DD was totally bewildered saying 'I was being nice, I got it for her'. Anyway, this crying etc carried on for ages and eventually my friend said to her, will it make it ok if we put the cup back and then you get it? I got up and put the cup back but then she screamed and cried because what she actually wanted and what she'd wanted all along was for her mum to stop what she was doing (eating) and get up to get the cup for her.

When Ive skirted round the issue before with my friend shes said that she tries to pick her battles because otherwise it would just be non stop crying and going on from morning to night. I think she just needs to have a couple of days like that, standing firm, and then the DD would surely learn?

When these kids grow up they'll have a very, very hard time, maybe bullied themselves. What will these parents think then? And Duchesse, an 8 year old! That's even more shocking!

You just have to decide whether this relationship is doing your DD any damage. If it is, then that's it goodbye friend. You can't control your friend's parenting but you can control who your DD spends time with.

The final straw for me, was watching friend's DS climb along the railing between the footpath and the Thames. Not so bad? HE. WAS. ON. THE. OTHER. SIDE. She asked him to come back on the correct side, he said no, she didn't say anything else...

I fell out totally witha friend over this, sounds almost the same, kicking, pushing, shouting, all sweet soft voiced friend being oblivious, in the end i cracked and went to the school after dd was kicked hit & pushed on school bus
She is no longer my friend as she took umbrage, it was painful, however, my dd is so much happier. The girl is much nicer to dd now that they rarely see each other out of school
DD is more important than a friendship

I am reading this with real interest. I am quite an assertive person but find myself totally unable to deal with a similar situation. I have a friend I really like. I have known her for ages and think she is wonderful (if a little scatty). I simply cannot bear to have her AND her child in my house. Seperately I can cope. Her DD will listen (reluctantly) to me if I tell her to tidy up or stop being spiteful. But when mum is around its infuriating. She does tell DD off but in such a bloody inefectual way its pointless.

Child is v.small and fairy like. Pretty and cute. My kids are quite big for their ages. It always seem to be mine that are expected to make exceptions for her DD even though my DS has learning diffs. Mum also very adept at telling MY kids off.

This child is v.spiteful. Scratches and punches if she doesnt get what she wants and then is quite matter of fact about it.

Mind you I had to put my foot down when they arrived in the middle of dinner and she suddenly decided she was hungry. Not only wanted a particular chair but wanted MY dinner! Mum actually seemed to expect me to give in.

My DS has mentioned a few times that he no longer wants this child around so we hardly see them now.

Bit of a hijack sorry. Dont expect any answers but thought I may as well add my horror story to the others

Chegirl - its infuriating isn't it?

I think its always been like this with my friend, I know that everytime we're all together as a group we would be talking and the kids interrupt as they do, and we'd say 'wait a minute sweetie, mummy is just talking' and then when finished obviously attend to them. However, she would always stop conversation immediately to talk to her DD whenever the DD wanted attention. God I'm sounding like a right battleaxe, I'm actually very soft with my DD but I do not like certain things, interupting / hitting / nastiness etc, and my DD does not do these things (she doesnt like the naughty step).

She (very kindly) took my DD into nursery for me two mornings a few weeks ago as I had to work early but my DD came back and said that her DD had been horrible to her. Apparently my DD had said her DD was beautiful and her DD said my DD was stupid. When my DD told my friend , her DD said that it was my DD that said SHE was stupid. My friend said she didn't want to hear lies and enough was enough. My DD was very confused and keeps asking me why my friend thinks she was lying when she wasn't.

I think, I'll keep talking to the school. I'll limit contact between them out of school and I'll see my friend on an adult friend basis ie without the kids. Seems sad though as my DD weirdly really likes this kid.