to strongly disagree with the opinion that crying is inevitable when settling a child into playgroup/nursery

[emkana]

Because I believe that if the child is given enough time to attach to the carers in the setting, ideally a designated keyworker, then eventually they will be willing to let their mother/father go without getting upset. This may take a long time though in which the parent will have to stay with the child, and then withdrawal has to be gradual.

All the people who are involved with ds (portage worker, SN coordinator at playgroup, his keyworker at playgroup) disagree with me on this and say crying is inevitable, so you might as well leave sooner rather than later to get it over with, because if you stay the child will think that you will always stay.

He has dwarfism and his speech is delayed, but his cognitive development is not too far delayed, even though he acts very young for his age. He is extremely attached to me and wary of strangers, I blame the numerous medical appointments.

emkana, sympathies about the nursery thing, have no insights to share as instinctively feel you are right and we have a weird obsession with forcing very small children apart from their mothers but equally recognise that nurseries would be unworkable if lots of parents were cluttering up the shop.

But on the language thing, I imagine you will have been taught about the dative and nominative and all that. Unlike those of us left to the tender mercies of the English education system... I had never come across those concepts until I started German lessons. And I was a gold star top of the class swot, especially in English Lang and Lit.

My German's pants, though, can only remember a handful of words (and one of them is schalplatterspeilen which is not really terribly useful these days. And I've probably spelt it wrong).

My ideal scenario would be:

I stay at playgroup, but blend into the background, as much as possible I go into the other room/stay inside while ds goes outside/keep away from him. Gradually he forms an attachment, esp to his keyworker, and trusts her to be there for him. When that happens, he does not worry when I leave.

edam

Will it hurt your feelings if I tell you that you have indeed spelt it wrong?

(Schallplattenspieler. But is it der, die oder das? )

Aww Emkana.That is so difficult.I think if you feel you should send a little more time with him then that is fine,but maybe set a date with you and nursery when you withdraw from the setting,with the proviso that if he becomes distressedf then you are informed.Do you feel that eventually the nursery will be a positive experience?

He loves the activities and being with the other children, yes.

From seeing the other children who were distressed I don't think that the staff would tell me the truth about how upset he was.

Ah, at least I warned you of my incompetence. And I have absolutely no idea about die, der, das. Ummmm, der?

Is an iPod still an iPod in German?

Yes ipod is ipod

And you're right, it is der!

hurrah! Take that, Frau Deans - never be any good at German, indeed!

I can sing Nena's '99 luftbalon' in German by way of an encore, if you like? (Only I can't actually write it down...)

Are you German then Emkana?

I am totlly shite at languages in a typically British fashion!

My DB is a fantastic linguist though!

I think ultimately,you do your best for your child sn or not.I feel guilty abnout all the stuff I spend agonising about dd,and then feel guilty about if I am giving NT DS ENOUGH attention.It is guilt guilt guilt.You sound like a loving Mum and surely that is enough?Our children are not abused or ill treated.They have love.Your ds will settle eventually.It will settle down.If you were a cap mum you ewouldn't be posting here!!It will work otu xxxx

To the OP. I think the thread title is very mis-leading. {sad}. As a very older mum whose children are grown up I was ready to rant. I didn't know what a 'portage worker' or SN coordinator was, or why a child would need a designated keyworker until I read 'wrinklytum's post. There is a thread for SNs where you can get much more advice. You sound like a wonderful mum btw.

I deliberately didn't post this in the SN topic, because I think it applies universally, not just to children with SN.

I think YABU,
You are speaking fromyour experience with your own 1 child
I can tell you that from my own experience of over 20 yeqars settling in hundreds of children, that, sometimes, yes, they do cry.
It is perfectly normal and part of the process of settling in
They are all different and not all cry
Sometimes I do think that parents make it harder for their children by hanging around and not leaving promptly.
This is an almost daily happening. The children whose parents are confident and leave them with a quick kiss and a bgoodbye settle much more that the children of parents who hoover for ages, asking for umpteen kisses and hugs.
Children take their cues from the adults, if the adults are anxious and not comfortable with leaving the child, then that child will pick up on those feelings. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

YANBU emkana. There's a massive difference between a child who settles a few minutes after the parent has left and one who cries or is unhappy for the whole session. Why anyone would think it a good idea to put their child through that is beyond me. Fwiw, my son found settling in nursery horribly difficult, but the nursery didn't have a problem with me sticking around. I did what you're trying to do, so hung around, tried not to interact with him - he got very confident with his key worker and liked being there, then I left. Took ages actually, but the staff agreed that he was on the unusual end of the scale and were happy for us to take it slowly. Some kids just take longer that's all and I'm really glad I didn't put him through screaming fits and such like. DS started school this year with no tears or problems and I'm sure it's because of a fanastic nursery who treated him as the individual he is. Honestly, stick to what you think is right for your child.

The problem is, emkana, that if all parents were to do this, well...fascilities may not be able to cope, and also it isn't great for children that are fine leaving their parents, i.e. are settled in, if they see that other children have thier parents there, and stuff...

tbh, I don't think that crying is inevitable, it really depends on the child....

Emkana - completely agree with you, don't listen to all the others (have only read pg 1, perhaps better on pg 2) - it's about their convenience, not the child's happiness and wellbeing.

To purepurple - am sure you're right about parents largely making it worse, but fwiw I did the big smile, leaving quickly with a big hug, etc. I'm quite a laid back person and thought we wouldn't have a problem. We tried it for a few sessions and every time the staff had to call me back as DS had become hysterical. They were used to handing kids, but mine was for some reason off the scale, so it doesn't always work - though I must say, I really wanted it to..

smee, that's where the real skill of a nursery nurse comes in, settling in a child that isn't your child. dealing with a screaming hysterical child is not easy but it can be done. I have never phoned a parent to come and collect a child because i coudn't calm them down.

And furthermore (feel v strongly about this!), while I took ds to nursery and stayed for as long as was necessary to settle him (interestingly was a v enlightened German woman in charge who encouraged carers to do this), my dh used to take dd to nursery and not tell me she was crying as he left because he didn't want me to worry and was told it was quite normal to leave a small distressed child by the staff.

DD, now 10, STILL talks about how much she hated nursery and used to cry all the time and why did she have to go there?? And not to "press buttons" because we don't react emotionally, but because she genuinely felt it v deeply.

YANBU Em, God are we the only ones on the thread??!! Don't do it, stick to your guns.

EVERYONE told me I was being stupid going with ds to preschool. Ds had big separation anxiety and I was heavily pregnant. They told me to leave him there so after a few sessions I did. Worst thing I ever did, he is STILL having SA issues at nearly 6, they were fools and I did what they said because I had no one backing me up.

I lie awake at night to this day regretting it.

Don't be like me.
Do what YOU feel is right for him.

Oi, wot about me? I agree too.

Ah sorry I missed Hullygully! Skimmed thread before

You, me and Hully are right, everyone else is peddling the myth. It's not their fault, it's what EVERYONE who runs a preschool/nursery will tell you (unl;ess they are most unusual and as you say, enlightened)

Fwiw ds got mildly attached to one of the staff eventually which helped, but after I had had the baby I took him out again. He didn't go back until school in the autumn and waltzed into school without a problem...it was timing, he wasn't ready initially, by the autumn he was.

Bonkers to keep taking a screaming child somewhere they don't want to be.

So sorry Hully, I was writing my correction as soon as I posted!!

purepurple, well that's amazing and great for you, but honestly the staff at my son's nursery were fabulous and very experienced. I spent a lot of time there and saw them calm many a child who didn't want to leave. They just couldn't manage it with my son, and also thought he was genuinely too upset to be left, so called me back. I think they handled it brilliantly personally.
tbh, I don't see why a child needs to get hysterical in the first place. A few minutes crying is a bit different, but true hysteria is a step too far imo.
hullygully, DS's nursery was pretty enlightened too, though sadly unusual from other tales I've heard. + I'm not at all surprised your DD still remembers. How sad. One of the workers at DS's nursery told me his daughter still remembers it too, and he even now feels guilty about it, and she's 18.

'Children know which buttons to press to make you feel bad about your choices, and they'll press them for a reaction because they can.'

See, sorry to quote someone, but this kind of statement is SO sad and misguided...and so depressing