to be seriously tempted to tell dd she doesn't have to do her project?

[emkana]

She's not even eight yet.
She's in Yr 3.
The project is about climate zones (yawn).

yes, we both did at times.
He's a yr 4 in a yr 5 class so they expect a lot from him. He is also very competitive so wanted to do something great.
I probably spent more time on it then he did in the end because I trawled the internet looking for reasonable articles that he could understand. I didn't want him to spend hours looking for things as that would put him off.
Funnily enough there isn't that much on the Cold war and American civil rights movement suitable for this age!
I also wanted to make it interesting so searched out youtube clips of music and fashion, the world cup and stuff like that.

answered a bit more

if they get a good mark despite doing very little -- this is good how?

next time they will also do very little surely

all of this is lovely in an ideal world where all mothers are good teachers and all children are happy to learn at mothers knee

this is not all children, and not all mothers

quite apart from my own mistakes, I believe this further disadvantages children who are disadvantaged in other ways, whose parents have limited literacy, limited time, limited enthusiasm, limited ability, limited funds, limited access to resources and limited patience

they are excluded at an early age from the benefits of learning

Ds1 (8) had his first ever project to do last term. He wasn't very keen at first because he finds handwriting difficult but once he started he really enjoyed the work.

I agree too with Stayingsunnygirl's point about the sense of achievement from finishing a piece of work. Ds1 is one of those children who rarely finishes his work so he was very proud of his project.

I would say to encourage dd to do what she can in the time she has. If it really is too much then speak to the teacher about it.

Well it depends on the child stuffit. IME they do want to do more next time. Yes, they need encouraging.

The arguement that it disadvantages children without interested parents works across every area of school. Some children are disadvantaged because they come to school messy and without the right uniform, or without a proper lunch, or by not having had breakfast, or because no-one reads to them or encourages them to read. None of this surely means that other children shouldn't have those advantages?

orm -- yes, it depends on the child, and it's up to the op to read her own child, but most importantly, to take the whole issue seriously rather than say sod it

Do you think children are disadvantaged by not doing large scale projects during the holidays? I wouldn't say they were, maybe i'm wrong.

I feel this is an extra and to be honest i think unnecessary way to set failing children up for further failure, with little visible benefit to the rest of the class.

And let's face it, so many mums do the work. Just look at this thread. Ever heard of the teachers' comment VGM? (very good, Mum )

No. I meant disadvantaged by not having parental involvement in their school work. It isn't OK to stop children doing things just because some children are luckier than others iyswim.

And yes, I still claim 50% of the A- DS#1 got for his first school project But the teacher expected that (as you imply) and in the end it still gave DS the idea of what was needed and some experience in what he will need to do regularly as he gets older.

Actually, unlike I used to, I now agree with both sides of the argument tbh.

However, I strongly feel that the very worst thing about homework in general is the sheer prescriptiveness of it.

Okay some familes need it to be a bit 'paint by numbers' for various reasons but I do feel that teachers can find it very hard to see merit in what is achieved when it isn't as simple for them as giving X number of ticks.

The beauty of project work can be that it allows for creativity qalongside the development of a good work ethic and self motivation but so often it isn't marked this way, or boring sheets are set over and over again.

Praise should be more readily available for the child who achieved by simply sitting down and having a go, for the child that did the homework to the letter, and for the child who did his homework on additon by counting money at the shops and writing a line about it.

I'd love to see homework set which gave a variety of options for how it is completed so that family time can be validated as learnign time also.

Is it just for homework? At our school when the children do projects like this, they also work on them during topic lessons at school - in which case your DD would have to do it anyway, she just wouldn't get as much done as the others if she's not working on it at home as well.

I think it is very sad. My children have better and more educational things to be doing in their life outside of school than huge amounts of academic work. Primary school age is too young for all of this. Yes, you have to do homework for GCSE maths, but what on earth has that got to do with a 7 year old. Should 2 year olds do projects to prepare them for A levels? It is all absurd!

School is a tiny part of childhood. I have no wish to make it any bigger by turning my house into a pseudo classroom. I am certainly not doing any of the projects for them; that is simply teaching them that the destination is more worthwhile than the journey. What a waste of a childhood and a lesson in how to waste your life.

Same here rusty. They get special project time in school as well.

I don't think it necessarily sets up failing children for failure stuffit.
In our case I'm sure the teacher is aware that I will give ds1 as much support as possible (without actually doing the work for him) and will gauge his project on that.
for a child who might not get help at home, I'm sure she would judge their work on that criteria.
That is what's nice about project work, there is no right and wrong answer. A "failing" child could produce something, interesting, different, artistic and be praised for that.

x posts with loads....

Last time DD did a project we had no printer so she wrote it all out with associated spelling mistakes and 'tired' handwriting in places. Also it meant she couldn't print off pictures so had to draw everything. it was a mess compared to some of the more professional looking ones, but she got joint top marks. Part of that was because when she presented it to the class she spoke clearly and looked up when she was speaking. There are so many lessons of value in something like this.

I agree: but reading and maths are so much more important academically, and are worth the benefit discrepancy. These projects expect children to imbibe vital study skills from parents at a very young age, when the parents may not have them themselves.

I've been told by one school that parents are not allowed in to listen to reading, because they aren't trained teachers and could get it wrong. But we are let loose on this?

I truly believe that children should be taught study skills at school: completing a couple of projects with heavy teacher involvement before they are given as homework, and continuing heavy teacher involvement for those who will not have support at home.

Is this homework worth the benefit discrepancy, considering that so many of the benefits of project work are available to those with motivated families without school involvement and the failure of others?

It's a Utopian scenario which I think needs debate.

IIRC the research shows little evidence that homework at primary level, other than reading, has any positive benefit whatsoever.
Parental involvement and interest is important. Homework isn't.

Cadelaide and others FFS please do NOT do your children's homework. I am a teacher and have enough to do without wasting my time marking parents' work!!!

Just tell the teacher they haven't done it. What are they going to do, notify the homework police?

Rant over.... for now!

Orm, that is what I hope for with my DC and their homework, but I've yet to experience it.

Invariably, DS1 is corrected for his use of 'the wrong pen' or the 'wrong colour'.

I am pleased with him if he manages to complete the task, manages to stop himself from drawing crocociles mid-word, and is willing enough to equip himself with tools for doing the job and gets on and does it when he'd rather be on his bike.

I don't nag him if he selects a pencil instead of a pen or blue instead of black.

x posted with Rusty, sounds like a great teacher. It sounds like there are some terrific teachers out there who give great feedback.

It hasn't really been my experience though, so although my view is coloured by that, I don't think I am alone.

I really do agree there are huge benefits, WHEN it works.

Hobbgoblin said it a bit ago, I agree with so much of that.

I haven't read the whole thread in detail (sorry) but am I right in saying that you really don't think it would be interesting or valuable for a year 3 child to write/draw 6 sheets over a period of a month on, say, polar weather, animals, people etc?

Milly - part of the reason for homework at primary school is to ease children gently into the habit of doing some school work at home. In my experience it is a big shock to the system to arrive at secondary school and get your first experience of homework there - especially as the secondary schools are often far stricter about non-completion.

I agree that the schools should make sure that they are not overburdening children.

I think the problem is the opposite - they are fed up with it by senior school. I did hardly any homework at primary, but was happy to it when I got to senior school. I don't think we need to prepare them earlier -they can do what is age appropriate when they are at that age.

I didn't find doing homework a shock at secondary school, and we were never given homework when I was at primary school. Even at secondary school we were given homework that we could complete ourselves without parental help. Both of my parents were teachers and they didn't do my homework for me.

What are all these children going to do when they arrive at university? Are you all going to write their dissertations for them?