to be irritated by "real women"

[MoreLikeMiranda]

Sneering that the likes of Angelina Jolie, Megan Fox, Claudia Schiffer or any successful, rich and beautiful woman isn't a real woman.

FFS, they are not robots or plastic.. they are extraordinary women... hurrah for them!

Paolosgirl, I know exactly what you mean, we are constantly told that men prefer 'real women' it makes me feel inferior to any other woman I meet because my boobs are so minuscule, personally I'd rather be fat and busty, at least it is possible to lose weight! Because of this message all my life despite having had and bfd 3 children I sometimes wonder if I am a 'real' woman, (and yes I do have a boy with ASD so perhaps its all the testosterone and not enough oestrogen and I am a man in disguise) especially as I am pretty crap at multi tasking as well! Not only is it in all the women's mags I have seen, articles 'celebrating 'real women' are in broadsheets like the independent, ffs! Even authors I like like Dickens and Solzenetskin (too late to check spelling) make their nasty/cruel women skinny and flat. Imagine living with that kind of negative stereotyping in every book, mag, paper, film you ever see. I even find it wierd that DH fancies me (so no chance of a boob job alas). Would love to know if other mnetters have been affected by this and if they feel sick/revolted every time they take their gel bra off and realise with horror how flat they really are, makes me sound shallow I know, I do get through the day without thinking about it now, butin order to show my boys what I think about all the images of pheumatic women I make damm sure I objectify men as much as possible and don't value the opinion of not very fit luvvies like Gok and Alan Carr ifyswim.

My DH says to me he likes my size, and i have been a size 10 and a size 14 and in between. when im slim he says he likes me that way and when im fat he says he likes me that way! So its about personality at the end of the day, not looks...

Chellesgirl wrote: "Any man who can adopt a child (before having his own flesh and blood) is surely sacrificing something".

What complete and utter rubbish.

sleepless I agree with the batshit mental and I don't find her particularly attractive either, I think she looks sharp. I do understand that 99% of the world disagrees with me however.

Saying that some people are "real" surely implies that other people are what - made up? imaginary? virtual?

It's a completely meaningless statement. The only thing that one can say of any celebrity is that all we really see is an image of them, so in that way I guess they are not real, but that's just the image, not the actual person.

I think it unwise to compare yourself too much to any media person, because (especially now) images are so processed that even the perfectly made up "beautiful" person has been manipulated to be even more perfect. Better to celebrate what is good about yourself than always be looking for deficiencies. Try smiling at yourself in the mirror and you will find you see the smile, and feel good. To me attractiveness is all about personality.

"To me attractiveness is all about personality."

Yes but a good set of arms doesn't go amiss either...

Yes, everyone is "real" and I think as women get into their 40s like me you get more self confident than you were in your 20s and you realise how different everyone is whereas teenagers are often trying to conform to some perceived norm.

As for women working as mentioned above, all these women being quoted are like me - look reasonably good when the effort is made and earn a lot and are successful but of course that's not what "real" women are any more than housewives. Who would be an unreal woman? Someone pretending to be a woman who is male for example before the sex change operation. I know someone who met a "woman" from the internet and a man turned up! Even that's an interesting issue - can you change your sex legally if you felt you were always a man despite being born into a woman's body.

On the subject of flat chests I don't think the poster needs to worry. Big ones get in the way, mine have since I was about 14; makes no difference to most men and they're just a nuisance.

I agree Xenia. I am 'blessed' with enormous ones on a skinny body and it is a PITA. Men assume you are a tart (well they used to) and women think you are deliberately showing them off all the time when in fact there is not a lot you can do to hide them. I would prefer an A cup actually.

Well, thank God. FINALLY, there is a thread supporting these poor celebrities. They've been hard done to for so long now.

Perhaps we can get a little on-line support group. Save Angelina from her lips. Save Megan Fox from obscurity. Save Claudia from blandness.

Any takers to make up the t-shirts?

Mulanmum1????

So your saying a person who adopts a child (even though they could easily have thier own) is not a decent person? Brad sacrificed the fact he 'may not' have had children with Angelina, still stayed with her and also cared for her adoptive children.

I think thats commendable.

Chellesgirl

I'm saying that a man who adopts a child (whether he could have birth children or not) isn't sacrificing anything. He is gaining a son or daughter and the pride and pleasure he will get from being their daddy. Adoption is no more commendable than becoming a father through impregnating your partner.

Brad didn't sacrifice anything, he got the gorgeous Angelina and adopted her children so they became his children. They are "his own".

Well, the latest extraordinary woman I've come across is Ann Daniels. I think she does count as extraordinary. Heard Pen Haddow talking about her on the radio, about when she fell into the water between ice floes in the Arctic - "well, there are two things you can do - you can get in your tent, light the gas and get warm and dry. Or, if you're tough like Ann is, you just get out and keep walking".

I suppose you could say that "real women" are resentful of being compared to "artificial women" - as in, the airbrushed, spray tanned, silicone enhanced, artfully photographed pictures of women the media tends to bombard us with. I'm willing to bet that in real life Angelina Jolie, Megan Fox et al go to the loo just like the rest of us.

Habbibu I'm afraid as she has never featured in Closer, Now, Bella, Take a Break etc in the makeover section I will have to disqualify her from the extrodinary women competition.

Ah. I see, Libra - many thanks. Must start reading proper improving literature, obv!

Mulanmum, I dont think you get what I was saying. I agree with everything you say. But The word 'sacrifice', i am not meaning as a bad word, or saying he gave up anything. In a way he sacrificed his own 'fatherhood' to care raise 'someone elses' children.

No he didn't sacrifice his own fatherhood to raise someone else's children . He became their father. That's what adoption is! He is now their daddy. He adopted Maddox and Zahara after he and Angelina got together and then they adopted Pax.

My husband and I chose to adopt rather than have birth children. My DH doesn't think he's sacrificed anything by not having his "own flesh and blood" and he certainly doesn't think he raising someone's child - just our own beloved daughter.

Surely a real woman is someone who accepts herself for what she is and embraces her essential femaleness. Without wishing to get all bleed into the earth at Tinker's Bubble, I think the happiest women are those who work with their biology and act according to their biological imperatives like caring for their children while the man "hunts" and gathering (from the supermarket) the food that keeps them all going. Womwn who try to be the hunter never seem very happy to me. There is a reason we are two sexes after all.

When my dad is left to his own devices to hunt and gather from the supermarket, he gets chicken burgers and value pizzas. And that does not put my mother into her happiest mood.

i knew you were gonna say you had adopted. youve obv. got a 'real' man. But your still taking the word 'sacrifice' offensively. I wish you wouldnt. You know that Maddox was adopted in 2002 and they didnt get together till 2005. I feel its a good 'sacrifice' he made and so you and your husband not to have BC for whatever reason.

Hab.. I so agree, you cant send a man to do a womans job. but alot of the time a woman can do a mans job!

Hmm - not sure that's what I was saying - think men can do "women's jobs" v. well, but my dad and food shopping - well, let's just say there has been Much Training.

I dunno - it is true that I would rather DH went to the supermarket than I.

MAybe there's something in biological determinism after all...

Real woman is just a polite way of saying 'fat'.

I also get fed up with being told that real women must love chocolate, or chick flicks.

well i cant send DP to do ANYTHING! If he 'cleans the kitchen' that means wiping the bits off the side onto the floor...

All hed buy at the shop would be chicken, chicken chicken.. oh and some haribo for .

You give him £200 he buys new alloys for his car, although we need food/clothes for dd and the bills paying.

What can your dad do that your mom can too iygwim?

I think the 'real woman' thing refers to the fact that you only know Angelina Jolie as a carefully constructed media image and not as a 'real woman.'

So you might see Angie and Brad coming through the airport with their 6? children, looking fabulous - but you don't see the army of nannies, PA's, stylists etc who will follow in their wake.

Why should I look up to Angelina Jolie? Born into 'Hollywood' family, had a nose job, bagged herself a millionaire, and gets horrifically overpaid for acting ( or 'pretending')in some fairly shite films.

She isn't exactly Marie Curie is she?

It's sad that we don't champion great women scientists, writers, athletes, academics, businesswomen in the same way.