To think it's depressing that everyone seems to think after this recession we should just return to exactly how things were?

[kake]

Does anyone else get this sense? What I mean is that everybody is lamenting this recession, quite rightly as it's awful, and I feel for everyone who has lost their job or is struggling.

But on the other hand there doesn't seem to be an acceptance that in some ways this has been at least a little bit caused by complete over-consumption in the good times and that we need to change our ways a little bit. Or a lot. When people talk about house prices especially, the consensus always seems to be that if there's any talk about a recovery that must be a positive thing, with the implication that we should be getting back to stupidly inflated house prices as soon as possible.

I find it depressing, as someone who didn't buy partly because we couldn't really afford it but also because we were really cautious and didn't want to overstretch ourselves. But now we're seeing a lot of friends who did somehow being rewarded as their mortgages have been slashed.

I'm also someone who wishes that taxes had been much higher for what I consider to be well paid people (and that would include my DH!) during the boom, so that there hadn't been such a disparity in income in this country then. It's a shame that higher tax levels in future will have to pay off debt not contribute to the national benefit! If I mention this to (well paid) friends they look at me as if I'm mad, although they are people who in principle I think sort of do believe in equality, just not if it affects their/our pockets. My view is that as satisfaction with income is largely relative (ie it matters more to people apparently that they get paid more than their neighbour than their absolute wealth), then if everybody is taxed more at higher income levels, then we'd all be in the same boat and it wouldn't make much difference.

But I feel like I'm STILL swimming against the tide, just when I would have thought more people would begin to feel like this. We have lots of friends who work in the banking sector for example who've been through a bit of a rocky time but now seem to be out the other side and better off than ever and sort of with no lessons learned!

It just seems ... so wrong! Or maybe I just got out of bed on the wrong side. And this post isn't as articulate as I would have hoped!

i don't see us as poor-just 'fucking brassic' in it together and still smiling-i was very poor when i had dd1-mum and dad used to babysit and bring her back in a whole new outfit inc shoes and coat with a full box of nappies and some shopping (i was working full time at the time)
i am a sahm through no fault/desire of my own,but i kind of like it a bit. a few more quid'd be nice but fuck it-it's only cash. if we get through this we can get through anything i reckon.

Sorreto - do you really mean this?

"I couldn't keep a man or have a husband who earnt less than me no matter how worthy the cause"

What if he wanted to be SAHD? Do you really mean he absolutley has to earn more or the same as you? Why do you feel that way? Do you feel your money is your money and his money is his money or is it more visceral than that like 'the man has to be good provider'?

Absolutely not having a go at all I am just genuinely interested. I have never heard anyone say it so explicitly and strongly before but I have always suspected a few of my female friends feel that way.

When I met my husband he earned less than me. Now he earns much more, and with baby 1 on the way, soon will earn much more. I quite like the fact that I earned more at the start of the relationship. It's hard to explain, but kind of reminds him the money relationship didn't always go one way. Does that make sense?

Sorrento that is an awful admission.You have such aspirations lets hope you get there.When dp and I first met I earned a fair bit more then I got seriously ill and he did.At one point he had to stop work and look after me and we had no salary coming in.A partnership is just that you sound like you are in a power struggle not a marriage!You need to chill and see the bigger picture.Life is not a spreadsheet!!!!

'Well to be fair the whole mortgage is in his name Xenia so it's my house but his debt.'

How do you figure that?

As far as I am concerned when we met and married we made a deal if you like, that he worked and I looked after the children, so yes I do expect him to be the main provider and I will roll with any chances life throws at me, he may well end up a stay at home dad whilst I work.
But It would be a temporary situation, he'd not stop looking to get back into his role so that I can get back into mine.

You are the very definition of middle class sorrento terrified to step out of the imaginary 'roles' society deems acceptible for us all.lets hope nothing random ever gets thrown at you!

'Well to be fair the whole mortgage is in his name Xenia so it's my house but his debt.'

I'm still trying to puzzle that one out! Hope you never split up and he decides to battle that one in court. It may work out in your favour but it may cost you both so much it may blow all the equity and then some. Court fights don't come cheap.

Because the house would come to me under most circumstance, he leaves, my house, if he dies my house, if I leave he can have it
Certainly no power struggle in our home Noddy.
Nothing wrong with seeing life as a spread sheet it avoids nasty surprises, people don't plan to fail, they fail to plan and starting off with a decent career minded husband never hurts.

Like I said, let's hope that works out for you, Sorrento.

There would be no court fight expat, the house would come straight to me. I'm not an unfair person, I wouldn't screw him over but we both have a lot of assets he'd be keener to hold on to than the house.

'and starting off with a decent career minded husband never hurts.'

Oh, I'd say a fair number of women have been royally screwed by that.

As noted in the women's toilets in the Aerospace Engineering building the University of Texas at Austin: 'For women who forsake their careers for a man's, poverty is a divorce away.'

'There would be no court fight expat, the house would come straight to me. '

If he dies, yes. But that is not automatic in a divorce. You're sadly mistaken if you think that's true.

Like I said, best of luck! Hope you never need it.

Ha ha I wouldn't say that was an unfair statement, however I'm quite old fashioned and had the divorce conversation before I got married and know exactly what's coming my way should that unhappy day ever arrive and had also made enough money to keep the DC's and I before I had them so really it's a none issue for me.

You are very sure sorrento!If you think that why isn't he providing now?Why did you have to choose between toothpaste and food if it is avoidable.you say it is a temporary situation lets hope so

Sorrento - WOW!

I really didn't expect that answer. I admire your honesty I guess if that is the deal you made then that is fine but whatever happened to equality and all that? What happens if DH gets ill or cannot get back to work? Still not sure I understand the underlying reason you feel that way.

Again, I am not having a go. Just really interested because so few people would actualy be happy to admit this even though I think many marriages actually do have this 'deal within them.

(sigh) We have already discussed that I wouldn't take something very important to him in a divorce situation and therefore the trade off is that I keep the house.

If he gets ill and cannot work obviously i'd then divorce him and find a man that could.

hilarious

"in sickness and in health" No?

Well noddy in answer to your question, the toothpaste choice was a very long time ago when I was a single girly who thought that £800 was more than enough money to land in Australia with, which it probably was if backpacking but I'd relocated with work, never mind we live and learn.

He was made redundant in November and got a massive payout, so whilst he's not working he is still more than doing his bit financially, I'm not worried yet except for the gap on his CV and making the place look untidy during the day.

I do completely agree lets hope it's temporary because I have to say I've kept my side of the deal so I won't be impressed if he doesn't keep his in the long term and that's my biggest concern, back in November he was like a bouncy Tigger off to interviews, as time goes on it's bound to get you down.

'There needs to be balance in any relationship, I couldn't be a kept woman long term,'

But isn't that what you are?

No not at all he is currently receiving £60 a week in contribution based job seekers allowance, I am paying the other £2500 of bills, food etc.
When he gets back to work I'm not going to ask him to repay me.
I still contribute my share of the income, I just don't go to work for it, so who's the smart one

Which is not to say I wouldn't go back to work, god knows I'm trying to make sure everything i"ve built up over the years isn't frittered away, but over any length of time say 7 years I will have been at home for 3 of them tops.

LOL @ this!! Luckily DH and I have no assets to fight over should we divorce, at times I've earned more than him and he's stayed at home, at the moment he earns more than me so I stay at home. Our next move (coming up in June) is to both go part time and have 2 week days together to 'whispers' have fun

What's the point of 'the house' 'the car' 'the career' if you're too knackered and burned out to enjoy life?