to think this woman's misguided to say the least?!

[Floopy21]

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/melanie_reid/article6101189.ece

I nearly exploded when I read this article this morning.

One community midwife told me that in 19 years of homebirths she had NOT ONCE had to blue light any mother or baby to hospital. Plenty had been transferred to hospital, but no lives were ever at such risk that a blue light was necessary.

It is a myth that homebirths are more risky than hospital births. The facts simply do not support it. (anecdotal stories do not add up to evidence, statistically)

I think homebirths are great (I had one, after 2 hospital births). I wish more women would have them. But I would never presume to tell anyone how/where they should or shouldn't have their baby.

And I don't own sandals. And I certainly did not breastfeed til secondary school.

Stupid, ignorant woman.

YANBU.

And what an awful article. Got me all wound up now.

Oh yawn. So this is the quality of journalism in a broadsheet nowadays. I dread to think what comes out of the lower end of the market.

It's an extremely stupid article. I've given birth in hospital and at home. There was absolutely no comparison between the two expriences. The home birth was a wonderful experience and the two hospital ones dire.

I'm definitely having a CS with this baby, mainly so I can be sure I'm under the care of doctors rather than midwives-All I got when I was having dd was stress and pain off midwives. They wouldn't beleive that I was in labour and tried to send me home (this was after waters breaking and with extremely painful contractions five minutes apart, but apparently as I retreat into myself when I'm in pain and go quiet and still I couldn't have possibly have been in enough pain to be in labour) Then when they finally examined me they agreed I was in labour, but that I needed to eat something (even though I was throwing up left right and centre) and they kept shouting at me to think of the baby instead of myself and stop throwing up! Then they told my mum and dp to go and get some fresh air while a student midwife looked after me-when I had a contraction and just wanted someone to hold my hand and count to ten with me, as my mum had explained, the poor girl (she must have been about 18) just sat there looking petrified. I got myself comfy in the bath and they kept making me get out so they could make me lie on my back while they strapped monitors to me, and examined me again and again. They only let me a have gas and air as first I wasn't far enough into labour then I was too far, then offered me a paractetomal, even though I was still retching all the time. It was only after my mum had a word that they finally offered me an "up the bum" paracetomol, but they didn't seem to think I'd want it as I'd be too embarrassed! Then they demanded I move rooms as there was apparently a funny smell in the room we were in, didn't let me have a wheelchair and it was only when an older more expierienced midwife saw how I was walking that she examined me and realised my baby was breech and I was already 10cm dilated!

Then things got much better, a nice doctor came in, examined me and properly explained what was going on, said I was going to have to have a section (I just asked if pain relief would be offered, when he said I would be getting a spinal block I could have kissed him) and we had a lovely anetistist who chatted to me all through the section and made me feel really at ease.

While I was in surgery, a midwife apparently came and shouted at my mum for not tidying up the labour room as she is a nurse and should apparently know how busy the nhs is. Never mind that she didn't know if her daughter and grandaughter were ok!

I got flashbacks to the birth for ages afterwards, and have only just come off the antipsychotics I have been on since, as well as a couple of mental hospital stays, and I am pretty sure that a lot of my problems can be traced back to the complete lack of control and safety that I felt whilst in labour.

The midwives during my fist pregnancy were awful too, one even gave me a talk about how I should expect to lose my figure and I should eat properly for the sake of the baby and not be so selfish. It was only once I ended up in hospital in the pregnancy that anyone offered me antiemetics so I could keep at least some food down. I just felt like a total failiure throughout the pregnancy and birth due to all this "you're just pregnant, you're not ill" rubbish. It is possible for pregnancy to make you very ill, and birth is incredibly risky. A home birth would have been lovely, but I'm sure it would have been even worse for wishy washy out of thier depth midwives.

Rubbish, sensationalist article.

I've personally had one emergency c-section, one elective and will be having another elective.

However if i hadn't ended up being high risk with first i would have elected for a home birth. Thats purely because i think you get a better chance of a safe delivery at home with midwifes with you rather than in hospital with one midwife covering goodness knows how many labouring women.

I know lots of women who've had homebirths as they're popular around the Bath area and none of them are smug - just happy they got the birth they wanted.

YANBU - I do not like the patronising tone of this article.

Can I add that I am now 9 weeks with my second, and have only just given a wee sample to my doctors to get registered with a midwife, as I have so little confidence in them. I will be bugging my gp for anything I am actually concerned about and only trusting my midwife with basic monitoring. That is, unless they really surprise me. I don't think I saw the same midwife more than twice during my first pregnancy anyway.

Lissy - you had a dreadful time.

I happen to think (through unscientific research, ie. chatting to my friends) that hospital midwives are much much more horrible than homebirth ones. Probably because they are under so much more pressure to get you through the system as quickly as possible. In fact, it was the attitude of the midwives during my first two labours that made me want a homebirth for my third. The care I received was in a different category altogether. I felt supported and encouraged. I didn't feel a nuisance. Very different from my hospital births.

I haven't read all the thread, so my apologies if I'm repeating anything here...

Several home birthers on this thread talk about all the attention the had in labour vs the lack of attention received whilst in hospital...

This is all very nice, but is the lack of attention whilst in hospital due to crap NHS funding and over staffing? Does this not indicate that there are not enough midwives to go around? Does this not therefore mean that by choosing to have your baby at home you are actually taking up the funding of one or two midwives who could actually be in hospital helping out the majority who are having their babies in hospital (often not through choice due to health risks).

This may be what the author of this article, who herself sounds bitter and misguided - (I'm not saying I agree with her), means by her 'spoilt and complacent' remarks?

I'm not saying I agree with her, in fact I rather fancy having my next -should I ever have another - at home... but surely if we all decided to have our babies at home this would stretch the resources of the NHS beyond all capabilities?

I'm not having a go at HBs, but I would appreciate any light you guys could shed on this particular issue...

under staffing not over staffing, duh...

You get loads of this sort of stuff from the Times.

Typical Alpha mummy stuff - they feel angry about having crap births in hospital as they're the sort of women who feel like they ought to do everything perfectly and can't get their heads around the fact that when it comes to childbirth being smart and successful doesn't make a jot of difference to the outcomes. So they get their disappointment and feelings of failure out by bitching about the NCT and homebirth advocates in the media.

Personally I'm v. pleased about this research.

Nobody seems to have mentioned the research evidence of significantly lower rates of c-section and assisted delivery associated with homebirth. Wish someone would flag up that when you take higher rates of stillbirth and complications in pregnancies following c-section (plus the possible increase in the incidence of secondary infertility after c-section) into account, then the argument about the safety of homebirth assumes a different tone.

Oh - and I had a homebirth myself. Wouldn't willingly risk my or my baby's health by going into our local hospital where I wouldn't get one to one care in labour (more like 1 to 4 at the moment). I know too many women who've had near misses in this hospital because of bloody crap care by overstretched midwives looking after too many women at once.

Well said standanddeliver especially the Alpha Mummy bit.

TheBolter - I had an independent midwife myself so haven't strained the resources of the NHS.

If by having a homebirth you are reducing your risk of c-section, infection, breastfeeding failure and needing an epidural I think it is fair to say you are being mindful of the strain on NHS resources.

Of course if you have your baby in hospital and opt for an epidural you are also monopolising very expensive resources - but I don't see anyone here complaining about that.....

Where I had my homebirths, the midwives who deliver in the community are community midwives - they do clinics in the community, and homebirths or dominos. It's not like having a homebirth meant that I was taking away staff from the hospitals.

The reasons that hospital midwifery units are so poorly staffed is simple - money. And it's the same throughout the NHS - which is one of the main reasons I won't work for the NHS any more.

StandandDeliver, in my experience it is the ex-alpha-professional-career-types-now-out-of-work who run the NCT, join the NCT and bang on aboutl how bloody hard they are for not using pain relief and therefore being oh so bloody perfect by having their baby naturally!

My own personal experience, like I said...

X-posts Stand, thanks for your last. Very interesting points made. How does it help with breastfeeding?

Also, how does it reduce the risk of C-section? Am genuinely interested, not trying to pick holes in your argument. Like I said I'm open to the idea of trying it one day myself!

Not sure that being in hospital automatically "safer" though. We had a near miss in a busy understaffed horrid London hospital. Dd nearly died - midwife who was supposed to be watching me was on the computer, had told her I was exhausted after labour and emergency c section but she still insisted on me holding the baby then wandered off. I must have fallen asleep Dd slipped under my arm and suffocated luckily Dh came in and raised the alarm and a team could resusitate her. Great introduction to motherhood

TheBolter - 60% of emergency c-sections in hospital are for 'failure to progress'. This is less likely to happen at home because women are under less stress in their own environment, are less likely to opt for epidurals, which may cause their labour to stall, and are more likely to mobilise during labour.

More likely to find breastfeeding easy because you tend not to be using opiate drugs and epidurals during labour when you're birthing at home. Also not exposed to the poisonous 'formula friendly' environment of some postnatal wards, where if your baby doesn't latch on straight away you get man-handled by some unskilled HCA or midwife and then browbeaten into giving your baby a bottle.

Don't know where you live by the way, but the NCT joiners round where I live are mostly teachers, middle managers, the odd pharmacist etc. Not Fleet Street journalists, fund managers etc.

And the women who I know who use the least pain relief in childbirth tend to be young mums in their late teens, early 20's. But they're 'allowed' to 'bang on' about their pain relief free births without being sniped at because nobody's jealous and resentful of them achieving anything in other areas of life.

Home births can be lovely, I had one after an awful hospital birth 1st time round. But at a different hospital I've also had a lovely birth experience so there are many factors to consider before writing off one or the other. I am not a big sandal wearer, I prefer my DMs.

Majority of the midwives I've come across, and with 5 inc dts I've met more than my fair share, are pro-home birthing and find them much more relaxing than being in a hospital environment for themselves as well as the expectant mother.

Life isn't risk free. Especially at the beginning - I had three low risk pregnancies, one good hospital birth and two great homebirths. Babies die in hospital too. Not anti hospital birth AT ALL. But not a balanced article.

PS Had wonderful homebirths, but really not into breastfeeding and have no sandals except some car to bar bling heels. Once saw a lentil passing in a restaurant.