AIBU to be sad and shocked by this article? part 2

[FAQinglovely]

Moondog - that's the reporter that said those things - just pointing out what I should imagine were some pretty obvious things to the naked eye

The same article says that

"Louise is not inclined to blame the government for her difficulties. She is grateful for the money she gets every week and doesn't think her life would be much enhanced by increased payments."

In response to FAQ - just because a couple split up, they don't divorce their children!
Responsibility (and I mean financial and emotional responsibility) for raising your children continues until they are adults. If you have, say, 3 kids and then your relationship splits, you are very likely to have to scale down your expectations.

of course they divorce their responsibility - but once seperated there are 2 rents to pay for, 2 lots of bills.

How many on MN who can "comfortably" look after their children in a relationship with their DH/DP could continue to provide the same things for their children if between them they have an extra set of bills to pay??

gosh this thread is STILL going??!! And it has continuation threads??!!!

Ummm FAQ - I am 100 times better off on my own (financially I mean) with my DCs....sad fact of life ....and DH knows it too - which must really stick in his throat bless him...

Well I wouldn't be able to provide the same things FAQ! If I moved out, or DH moved out, and we expected to run two households then I think we would have to scale down our expectations drastically!
I don't agree that you can 'divorce responsibility' though - if you choose to have kids then you take on that responsibility until they're adults.

sorry meant they "don't" divorce responsbilit (had just woken up from a nap on the sofa ).

But what if you were alread living a "scaled down" existance?

Admittedly I am better off seperated from DH - but that's due to massive debts that we accrued tring to set up a business a few years ago which he graciosly took on when we seperated giving me a "clean start"

And yes many couples can still manange to provide the basics for their children after seperation, but what of those like Louise who's DP/DH don't pay anything or contribute.

Yes you could track them down, lock them up and automatically deduct earnings from them - but at 20% of earnings (or £5 a week if they're on benefits) it rarely makes a huge difference - especially if the mother has ended up on benefits as a result of the split (like I have) as the most they will get extra a weeek is £20.

FAQ - that makes more sense then!!

Re: your point about relationship breakups ... there aren't any simple, quick fix solutions. But I honestly think there has to be a shift of mindset. It's appalling that people (usually fathers) can abdicate financial responsibility for their children.It's not just the money, the emotional aspect is important too.

At the end of the day, there is ne 100% guarantee that any relationship is going to last forever, but I think once you have children, you have to accept that they are the responsibility of the two parents. And if you can't afford to keep breeding, don't do it. I teach some kids whose parents are on their second or even third relationship where they are continuing to have kids - and often the kids from the first relationship are emotionally and financially neglected. What's wrong with giving emotional security and being the best parent you can to your existing kids, rather than keeping on churning them out when you can't afford it? I'm not directing all this at you FAQ (or indeed anyone else specifically)- it's just kind of following on from the discussion about size of families.

whoops no 100%

That's bloody shocking if it's correct riven. No way should parents be penalised for actually staying together. Bloody benefits system is a joke. Penalised if you stay together, penalised if you go out to work and pay your own way.

I agree about the abdicating responsibility. As I've mentioned DH isn't currently paying any money - but that's due to his circumstances (and in agreement with me - but then again his £5 a week isn't going to make a lot of difference to me personally - or the DS's for that matter whereas it makes a huge difference to him).

thankfully he has continued to play an active emotional role in their lives, he sees them regularly and managed to arrange them to stay with hm occasionally even when he was living in shared accommodation.

I agree in esscence about what you're saying about having more children when you then can't afford to pay for your current ones.

But it still doesn't solve the problem of what to do when no "new" children are added after a relationship split but one or both sides of the parentage can't afford to live.

"Penalised if you stay together, penalised if you go out to work and pay your own way. "

Also at risk of being penalised if you're attempting to re-kindle a marriage (or partnership) if you're already living separately but want to start seeing more of each other with a view of moving back in together in the future and coming off the benefits.

Yeap - benefits system needs a complete overhaul.

WEll I knew that this would still be going on and i thought about this thread when i was in tesco today.

So, there is me, DP, DD and bob the jack russel in our house. Today we are boracic lint as DP is waiting for a cheque to clear so we had £25 until tuesday. We usually do our weeks shop today but broke so i went in and got a few bits, i thought right lets see what i can do with this (didnt want to have to do a second shop or lug stuff back from town which is more expensive and i dont drive) - i had to buy my mother some washing powder and conditioner (came to £7). The entire shopping bill came to £22.99.

What i got was this:

Mother's day meal deal = 1 small chicken, 3kg of seasonal veg (potatos, carrots and parsnips - will do a few days with this i think, poss three).

A packet of bramley apples to make a pie (rest of ingredients and custard powder at home)

half a pound of butter

sausages (cheapo ones ive not bought before)

half a pound of diced steak to make a pie (again have rest of ingredients at home, onion, stock cubes etc)

three small tins of tuna that were on special offer.

2 pints of milk.

NO bread, NO cereal, NO drinks or teabags, NO cleaning liquids or toilet rolls, NO kitchen roll. NO pasta, NO rice. Veggies wont last the week - the only fruit i bought was the apples. NO cheese, NO yoghurts.

this would have come to approx £15 - which would have been sucked up on milk, cereal, pasta etc i guess. No real provision for lunchtimes there either.

I felt quite pleased with what i bought for the money but i find it impossible to believe that you could feed a family in an anywhere near healthy manner for £20, i just can't see it.

It's still utterly ridiculous that any couple can be better off by splitting up.

Lemon - you can - but it's bloody hard - and if you don't know your kids will eat the stuff even harder to "try" stuff.

Packs of lentils and couple of carrots, plus some stock cubes - £1.50-2 - makes 2 lots of Lentil and Carrot Soup

You buy a bag of frozen veg (not it doesn't "taste" the same - but is still high in nutritional content despite what some people may believe) - roughly £1

Potatoes (if you drive you get a huge sack for £3.50 - otherwise you get the smaller pack for about £1.50. Tin of beans - baked potatoe with baked beans.

You buy a block of value cheese (got get a smallish block for about £2-3, a big block £4-5

Value pack of pasta - about 40p

Milk - 6 pints for about £2.60

You make cheesy pasta sauce (have to have at least marg in and some cheap flour) - that's 4 meals

Pack of wheat biscuits (or whatever is on offer - DS's have had Cheerios for the last few weeks as it's been £1 a box in the Co-op), or a pack of oats for porridge.

Value bread - it tastes cr*p but the kids eat it - 40p - baked beans on toast

Don't bother with the kitchen roll

And so and and so forth - it's bloody hard - but it can be done but it also depends on if you have a range of shops to go to buy the stuff - if you're limited in your choice then it's nigh on impossible.

Has anyone seen the price of bacon?

ILOVETIFFANY Yes, you would get to keep the excess, but it is cut off at £30 a week. Still, thats £120 a month, quite a bit!
Theyve chaged the Housing Benefit rules. Its called LHA Local Housing Allowance).
Its less complicated.
Eg, I have two children, of the same sex under 11 = 1 bedroom.
Me = 1 bedroom
Any other children = 1 bedoom etc.
The rates depend on where you live, but they seem to think that you can get a two bed house round here for £456, which you CANNOT! Even one bedroom flats are £500 pcm!!!! Astonishing!

Isnt that one of the issues about smug folk saying they could feed their kids better? Good food costs a lot more money than crap food. So a whiff of white bread or chips gets you feckless mother hat. Hell, I can spend £20 at the corner shop on a loaf of bread and some milk, it seems.

ILOVETIFFANY heres a link
I didnt realise that it doesnt affect you if you rent from a housing association.

FAQ....... If you're on income support then how does your du get away with not contributing?? Even on jobseekers they have to pay out of their benefits to csa.

Ivy - you see I can go to the market and get my bacon in bulk packs of 6 packs for £5. It's not bad stuff, and I use it for bacon and onion hotpot and the likes. I freeze it in the individual packs.

But then I have a market I can get to with a butcher that sells half decent, but cheap meat.

I also have a relatively good supply of bits and pieces in my kitchen cupboards to make the food taste nicer, a slow cooker, bread machine and don't need to worry about the electric or gas meter running out if I'm cooking a meal that uses more

Because I'm literate (no honestly I am ) I also have the ability to read books to find cheap but nutricious meals, and when all else fails I've had lots and lots of ideas from mumsnet (the baked bean lasagne I was told about 3yrs ago when I had £15 to feed 4 of us and buy nappies it still a family favourite), as I'm also lucky I have access to a computer (Which I know how to use) and can afford to pay for internet access.

Tiffany - because I opted to make arrangements with him for the money to come to me directly when they processed it. They asked if I was sure - and I said yes - as I knew he was up the creek financially and because they hadn't (and won't) take into account the debts he took on when we split up I knew full well he genuinely couldn't afford what they'd said.

Even before we started dating again I didn't want to see him go under completely under and when they sent me the letter telling me how much he was supposed to be able to pay me I made the decision to forgo that money so he could keep a roof over his head.

They changed the rules last year so that you can choose whether the CSA collects the money and passes it on, or whether the father pays directly to you.

Flubdub..... Blikey! Those are high rents!! Mine is only £85 a week for a 3 bed semi. Housing association. But I'm only 50 miles from London so think I'm quite lucky.

FAQ...... I see! So that must leave you considerably short each week ? They must deduct it from your benefits? You must love him alot!