To be sick of reading on MN that you are a "good role model" to your dd if you go back to work??

[ssd]

have read this over various posts on MN over the years

usually posters give various reasons to return to work, all viable and good, but then the poster throws in the "good role model" shite

why always harp back to this?

if you love your kids, teach them to respect and care for others, learn manners and discipline THEN you are a good role model

most of us eventually will return to work at some stage and if we don't we will still be good role models unless we are lying about the house taking drugs and leaving the kids to go feral, which I;m sure not too many of us do!

I know I'll get slated on here as the going back to work to be a good role model line seems to be very poplular round here and I'm not trying to wind up posters who use it, it just seems to me people work out of necessity, not to be a role model

And BTW where's all the role models for ds's??? or is just loving them enough?

One other thing. I have seen most of my sisters kids grow up (thanks to starting my own family late) and I've seen the kids with working mothers have different outcomes to the kids with SAHMs.

Sister 1 - Both parents worked. Son is 38 now, has never had a steady job and has recently married a Thai bride. Still takes his washing home to his mum. Just because someone is working, doesn't make them a role model.

Sister 2 - SAHM til kids were school age then WOHM when she re-entered the workplace with entry level employment in catering/cleaning. Both kids are now grown up and both are on benefits.

Sister 3 - no kids.

Brother had a dd and a ds. DD has always had steady work; ds is now mid thirties and is finally showing signs of settling down.

Working, in itself, is not enough to set a great example. As mothers we don't set great role models by just going out to work. Therefore I refute that a WOHM is a great role model any more than a SAHM mom is. It depends very much on the kind of person either the SAHM is or the WOHM is.

Well said Riven. Couldn't agree with you more. And surely suffragettes and women's rights pioneers fought for us to have a choice? Not for all women to do the same as each other or to punish themselves for not living up to some abstract 'expected' role of gender specific role model...working mums for girls, working dads for boys.

For me personally it is important that my dcs see dp and I sharing earning money and housework and childcare completely equally. They do not associate any one of these activities with a particular gender. They already assume that they will work for a living and talk about when they go to university and so on and the reality is that they like me and my mother and her mother are going to have to work throughout their lives (whether they marry or not and whehter they become mothers or not) to support themselves. I also want them to see work as rewarding and interesting and empowering which it is for me and was for my mother and was for her mother. This is not to set myself and my family life in opposition to anyone else's. I like the way work and home is balanced in my family and it works for us.

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YANBU I have noticed it too but it doesn't bother me. I know what I am doing is right for me, SAHM at present but have worked too.

Pruners, they say that whatever you do. My 4yo insisted recently that she wanted to be just a mummy when she grew up, like me, who stayed at home. I was a bit surprised, I have worked, often full time, since she went to nursery at 3 months old. But she insisted that I just stay at home and don't have a job.

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The thing is however many exceptions people can come up with it is typical for children to replicate many of the dynamics of the families in which they grew up and to identify certain activities and behaviours with whatever gender parent did and do those things.

This may not be a huge deal and neither working nor not working makes you a good or bad parent in itself. But it's silly to pretend it makes no difference. It does.

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No, not saying its simple and not saying it's always the same. But it is typical for children to replicate the dynamics of their family home however unconsciously. It's normal for both Mummy and Daddy to go out to work and to be home when they are to make the tea, do the housework and homework and look after them. At 4 and 6 my children don't really know there's any other way of doing things. They have no real concept of gendered behaviour for adults. It will probably never occur to them not to do the same thing when they are adults as it didn't for me. I can't really remember when I realized that life isn't like this for everyone. I don't think there was one particular moment so much as a slow dawning. And it still amazes and saddens me how much so many people are defined and restricted by gender roles.

Five candles "For me personally it is important that my dcs see dp and I sharing earning money and housework and childcare completely equally. They do not associate any one of these activities with a particular gender"

It is not practical for most people to share everything equally.. if I were away from the house 12 hrs a day (work plus commute) like DH my children would never see either parent.

I think children will realise that their parents are equal if the parents treat each other well. My mother worked more than my father when I was young, yet my father didn't treat her well and I think the up and down relationship between my parents affected me very badly when I was a teenager.

I think my children will do well, if they have a good education, a happy homelife and if they have good careers advice at school/uni and at home.

At weekends my DH and I share all chores, looking after children so I think the children see that both parents are equal then.

My dh works out of the home, I don't. We share chores and are very respectful of each other. We both discuss financial issues. we both work through who will contribute and in what way we contribute. DD knows we both set and work to the budget. DD knows that I contribute to the house in as many ways as her dad.

I can't see DD being a SAHM. She's not like me in any other way, I can't see her following me in this regard.

I know that children will often follow their parents, if they don't know any better, but at some point children move away from parental expectations. At some point, children become independent. If we give them the tools to do this, then, surely, we have been (or have given them) good role models?

No, happywomble. I'm not setting up my situation in opposition to other people. It is really important for me and my family. Personally, in my own life I wouldn't have it any other way. But no of course it wouldn't work or wouldn't be desirable for everyone.

I think my point is that when children grow up in a house where men go out to work and women stay at home for example they can learn that certain activities and behaviours are associated with either gender and that can be very difficult to challenge because it's their normality.

My children are going to have a hell of a shock as I did when they come across the gender stereotypes and ingrained attitudes that still exist because they've never encountered them before.

I'm sure they will rebel in all sorts of ways Riven but I can't see my kids as teenagers choosing to become SAHM. One thing is that they are going to go to an all girls private school where many of their peers will have aspirations to be doctors, lawyers etc and there is almost 100% progression to university.

As I've said the women in my family and dp's have worked for generations.

And, yes, sadly, people are still hugely restricted by gender roles. Women still very likely to enter the caring professions where they are well paid and men likely to avoid them (for the same and other reasons). Women much more likely to SAHM after children and men likely to work longer hours (to compensate for loss of earnings) therefore taking less active role in their children's lives etc etc. Women still earn significantly less than men etc

haven't time to read every post now, but i this sentiment has also rankled me.

If I went back to a low paid job, we'd be frazzled, broke, stressed...... that would be the reality for me as a single parent. My dc have effectively lost their Dad (he's a useless sh1t), so for me to be 'a good role model' while the dc sit in childcare so that I can operate at a loss each month, well, that would be genius

I'm setting the role model of having the confidence to live the life which suits us best for now, and to try and please the outside World.

I'd rather do nursing than buy and sell futures or any of those other jobs that make loads of money but I don't understand!

I disagree. No reason why men can't be good nurses and are. Also the fact that some jobs are done primarily by women contributes to their low status and low pay. Wrong. More men in childcare, nursing, teaching etc would be an asset just as more women MPs, doctors, lawyers, headteachers etc would be.

perhaps they throw in the good role model argument because they are sick of having to justify themselves against those who clearly disapprove....

the saddest thing about these threads is that we cant just live and let live and respect each others choices. there will never be any evidence/proof etc that one way is better than another.

That's the sort of ingrained attitudes and stereotyping I'm talking about which says women should do one sort of job (or no job) and men another. Don't buy it. Not having it for my children. They do what they want. Gender doesn't come into it.

er, yes of course. But women are drawn to some professions.