Grammar Schools and Private Schools

[peapodlovescuddles]

I genuinely don't know what to think here so would be interested to see what other mumsnetters have to say

Today while my son was swimming I overheard another mother moaning. Her DD has just found out she hasn't got a place at our fantastic local grammar school.
She was saying it wasn't fair people like peapod sent their children to grammar school when we could easily afford private school fees, my DCs went to a good prep school and then onto the grammar because I wanted them to meet a wide range of people from many walks of life. I didn't feel this would be accomplished at the local public school and I don't want my children to board.

So should I have sent my children to the private school so someone less well off could have had their place? Or is ANYONE entitled to a state education?

You pay taxes so you are entitled to the same services. She sounds .

I wish we had state grammar schools here

Anyone is entitled to state education.

Does she want you to give her your Child Benefit to pay for her childs swimming lessons too?

we have state grammars here not sure it is a good thing.

Seems as if only those that can afford the tutors pass the entrance exams.

EVERYONE is entitled to state education. That is a bit different from the grammar system which is rife with unfair advantages to those that can afford it.

What you do is immaterial to her if her child did not pass the test to get in.

Some people question whether it is a level playing field if some children have been sent to private prep to increase their chances of getting a grammar place.

Well we have them here and they just engender the worst type of snobbery and pushy competitive parenting. Even the parents of reception age kids worry about getting into the granmar. It's madness.

They are like free private schools. Lots of sloaney jemimas and giles types 4x4'ing their way into town every day.

Grammar or crammer? I prefer a more rounded education and I speak as a comp kid with a first from Oxford. I would never send my kids through that system.

If her child didn't make the grade it's hardly your fault. It has nothing to do with money.

She obviously had a real case of

My ds is at prep school with the intention of going to a grammar school. Reasons? He is more likely to get into grammar from the prep than our local failing state school and I am hoping that he is bright enough to pass so I'm not stuck with paying the substantially higher secondary school fees! Yes I of course I feel guilty about friends who can't afford to do the same and I reckon the comments from the swimming pool mother are bang on.

lol @ Jajas

I also think it is odd at primary school level when parents at pre-prep apply for state places just to see where they get offered, even though they have no intention of moving their dcs to the state school.

I feel your pain on that one too, for I have murdered many a promising thread

Don't take any notice-the woman in question would have done anything to get the place for her own DC. I think it is a load of hypocrisy. Everyone says that it is a marvellous system because a poor working class child can get a wonderful education-I doubt whether any of them wouldn't boost their mediocre child's chance with tutoring or practice to get them a place at the expense of the clever poor child who has no one to take an interest and has never seen a paper. She was jealous.

You've not murdered it. This is my job. Ds used to go to a private prep, their claim to fame was 100% scholarships to private secondary so the minted would send their children there to save money

"If her child didn't make the grade it's hardly your fault. It has nothing to do with money."

Some people would disagree with that statement, sending a child to prep school or even a state primary with an emphasis on passing the 11+ and having the finances to live in that catchment area gives peapods child a distinct leg up, some might say.

If mine don't pass the 11+ they'll be off to private school so I am investing in tutors now in the hope of not having to find another £450k for plan B

I've got some sympathy with swimming pool mother, though she was probably just feeling peed off. In this area there are just a few excellent grammar schools attracting a high proportion of entrants from local prep schools ( who advertise their success in this achievement). Many of these parents could afford independent secondary fees but choose the free place.

On the face of it, you can't blame them and they pay their taxes etc. etc. but there remains the feeling that by playing the system they are depriving some other children of a place. Of course it shouldn't matter because all schools should provide the very best but they don't always. The comfortable middle classes have very much cornered the market for grammar schools round here.

It is not true thatyou havetohave tutorstogetintoa grammar school.Whathappens is aclimate of worrythatSOME parentsfeed with their incessantCHATTERING andsomanyon their circlesthen fork outfor tutors.

In my experience,their is a fair spread beween INTELLIGENT children who get into grammar schools without tutoring and those INTELLIGENT children who get in with tutoring.

Some parentsjust will not accept that their children are not as intelligent as others overall,/able to do tests under timelimits too etc etc etc.

Loads of people are making their children suffer extra hours of tuition,for no purpose,because the children are just not intelligent enough to do it at the required level(11+).

Of course everyone should be able to choose a state education......if they want it. Now at the risk of being reallly unpopular,if there is no grammar school,if you have the means to do so,then I would say pay for the best alternative. I would want peace of mind.Not all parents whose children go to fee-paying schools are4x 4 drivers /snobs etc etc etc.

Sounds like she is just sore because her child wadn't clever enough to get in.

Your children are just as entitled to the place as hers, and they obviously out-performed her dd on the day.

Of course- in some authorities, there are more grammar places for boys, so easier for boys to get in IYSWIM.

Many, many people in my authority pay for independent education at primary level specifically so that their children will get into the grammar schools for secondary.
The grammar schools are of an extremely high standard- everyone wants their dc to attend.

Message withdrawn

I can understand why she is aggrieved you are playing the system fully to your advantage because you can afford private school now
hardly fair or a level playing field
the sooner they bring in a lottery for secondary places and abolish grammar schools the better I say it would then stop all this middle class manouvering and children from poorer backgrounds would have an actual chance to get into a decent school
(and no I am not Fiona Millar incognito )

Actually if you've never seen an 11+ paper until the day you sit the exam you have very little chance of passing as it's more technique than anything and is actually a very poor way of measuring intelligence full stop.