To not want DD to visit 'friends' house?

[ultimatewoman]

I'm sure this is a common problem but would welcome some sagely advice.

DD (10) was asked to a 'friends' house for tea. She knows the girl as a school chum and nothing more, and we agreed to this.

When I went to collect her I was greeted by a large Alsatian, the house was a tip with dog mess all over the garden, the stench of nicotine was everywhere and, I discovered later from DD, the father was quite abusive to his kids, openly swearing at them infront of DD.

The inevitable return visit is now being asked for by DD but we are extremely reluctant for DD to get involved with these arrangements.

How should we proceed: Just say no? Agree that her friend can come to ours but not allow visits to her friends house?

It's all a bit awkward.

Thanks

Have a bit of compassion for the little girl who obviously likes your DD and vice versa and may not have the best home life. Invite her to your house, let them play and have fun together. Monitor the situation but do not stop her from another perspective on life in these important formative years, it is so cruel to judge like you do.

Honestly I am so saddened by your attitude in your OP and some others on here.

I am very messy but not in the least bit common. I don't think whether you are tidy or untidy or clean or slobbish is a factor in 'commonness' and I don't think it's just about mess, or accent, or being working class, it's about what some mothers would perceive as possible negative/troubling influences.

Very difficult isn't it. You appear really judgemental and snobby but, i would be exactly the same!!

I would be happy if the dog was friendly, i would be unhappy about the shit allover the garden, but my rottie used to have a problem in that department and do three or four shits at a time, so if anyone came when he had just done it then i would have been shown up. My rottie was very friendly btw.

I wouldn't care about the house being a tip - my house is a tip.

I would care about the nicotine smell, but the deal breaker for me would be the father, he sounds awful.

Apart from all of this - what impression did you get from the mother if you met her? Friendly outgoing sort who is relaxed about her housework (like to think im like that) or lazy cow who sits watching jeremy kyle and could be a potential participant?

What is the little girl like? Nice and polite?

Oh, this is sooo so difficult and i hope im never faced with this - there is a lot to be said about trying to culture friendships for your children yourself, but of course you cant do that all the time.

It would be really really sad for this little girl to lose out on a friendship because of her parents, especially if you are not the only parent who feels the same, she will be a very lonely little girl. So i guess, have the return visit and judge the little girl from that - From what you say, your DD wasn't comfortable at their house and would be quite happy if the girl came only to yours. That would be what i would do.
Don't think i would be happy about my DD going there tbh.

God what a weird post...do people really think like this?

I haven't posted here before so I'll just jump in with both feet

LucyEllensmummy, I'm watching Jeremy Kyle right now. I have it on series link Does that make me common? Does it mean that I can't be bothered to do housework? Ask yourself what the difference is between posting here for 45 mins or watching telly?

There are some very judgemental attitudes here

I have to say, i would be unhappy about my DD going to the house of people i didn't know anyway - regardless of state of house, class of parent etc.

Could you maybe have a word about the language - just say to the dad it is something you are sensitive about and ask him to kerb his language in front of the children? If he tells you to fuck off, then you have your answer - don't let your child go there again. If he is embarrased and mutters something along the lines of "sorry, i forget myself sometimes" then i think that he is probably a decent sort who is a bit lax about his language, probably doesnt realise he is doing it and you flagging it up to him might make him think about it. I swear far to much and do let slip in front of my DD sometimes Doesn't make me abusive parent - but i would never swear AT my child.

I think its quite clear that you don't want your dd going here and that, as a parent, is your choice.

It also seems clear that your daughter has a bond with this other child and personally I think it would be a shame not to maintain this.

You'd probably be doing something good for the other child and your dd by setting up some sort of "other" situation for them to socialise in.

Like others have said, could you just have the other child at yours from now on? Or take both children to the park etc from school and then drop the other child off?

I understand why people think you're being harsh but also see your pov.

I'm pretty certain that when I was younger a friend of mine wasn't allowed to come round to play because of the area we lived in. However, had her mother taken the time to come round, or nip in when dropping me off, she'd have seen that we actually lived in a really nice cul de sac, just side to side with the area with the "bad" reputation. Additionally her dd could've eaten her tea of my mums floor and my mum being aware of the areas that were just surrounding us made damn sure that we had plenty to do inside, in the garden, in our immediate street, with ample supervision.

However, you've seen the situation and assessed it. Do you think it's always like this?

Sorry, long. Bit ranty too IMO!

serendipitous harlot (love the name) there is clearly a difference, this is the middle class form of JK!! But sorry, i think JK is shite and cannot even compete with jerry springer!

I don't watch JK, but i AM common

Well it would probably hurt my cause to say that I do have a little crush on Jezza

In all seriousness, the OP does come across as a bit judgemental. However, we're all a bit judgemental sometimes. I wouldn't discourage the friendship if I were you, I don't think it does children any harm to spend time in the company of people that are different from what they're used to. It's a good way to prepare them for the world

I only know one father who, when we were children, swore the air blue at his offspring.

He is the nicest man. He never raised a hand to them (unlike my father who terrorised me regularly), he made sure he was home from work by 5pm every day (no mean feat, as a builder's labourer), and both his children are now happy successful adults, and he is now the most loving Grandad Mick (as he was Daddy Mick to all us waifs and strays who took refuge in their tiny, grubby, smoke filled animal smelling loud sweary house).

I adored him then, I adore him now. He was one of those parents who can be both a haven and a friend - we could always go to Daddy Mick. And he would always let us in - he hung a key up for us in the toilet (which was one of the last outdoor toilets in this country)

The times I ran to that house from my own Victorian four bed semi, sobbing about how my dad kept hitting me and my mother didn't love me enough to stop him. The times he poached eggs for me because I had stayed over night because my house was a seething volcano. He used to bellow up the stairs to us "If you two don't get your fuckin arses down these stairs these eggs are goin' in the bin, I'm not yer cuntin' slave!!!"

he never threw our breakfast away. Well, he did once, it had gone cold, but he made us some more. Conversely, it wouldn't have occurred to my parents to make me breakfast once I could reach the cereal.

I guess what I'm trying to say, through all this drabble, is that the most unlikely people can be pure gold. And Daddy Mick was pure gold, pure pure gold. Maybe your daughter's friend's family isn't like this - but maybe they are, and if you stop your daughter ever seeing them, she'll never have the chance to experience a different, but still good, way of life.

My exes family were EXACTLY like this...but they were really lovely people and always treated me and their kids really well...

YABU, but I sort of understand why!

Coldtits - your post made me have goosebumps!!! Of course you are so so right! Different strokes for different folk s - LMAO about the poached eggs and the cunting slave!!!!

Actually, our neighbours were like this - very entertaining, honestly what went ON in that house?? Provided years of entertainment and glass to wall moments. I used to hang around with their sons, play over the fence and go around to their house - thankfully i was too young to understand why there were two mummies living there and one daddy . But this man was very kind and child orientated. Not sure what he did for a living, but his children were paramount in his life. The air was constantly blue and i dread to think what other colours!! Nothing bad happened to me. We missed them when they moved - for varying reasons - my mum started watching eastenders at that point!

excellent post coldtits

I grew up in an outwardly v nice setting with a great deal of domestic violence behind the scenes.
My mother chose house cleaning as something she could control.

Does everyhing have to be about appearance and class today?

There is a dad at DS2 nursery who swears like a navvy. But TBH he is such a loving and caring dad, he just swears, a lot.

Coldtits, your post gave me goosebumps too. Living in a nice house and using nice language dos not exclude someone being a cunt.

Me too. What food for thought.

Thanks for all the views. I guess the crux of it all is the way the father swore at his daughter about something she apparently can't control easily. It did make DD uncomfortable. The rest is tarnished by that.

I agree that letting them be friends is the best option but they really barely know one another at this stage and DD has a firm 'best friend' she has known for years.

Maybe we'll invite her round and see how it goes.

I hate to be pedantic cracked fox, but my dad WAS a navvy - and NEVER swore , me on the other hand, i swear like a fishwife

I would say, definitely invite the friend round. As other people have said, it might be that this child is a lovely, sweet girl who would love to come and spend time in your home and be really grateful for it. Unless she turns out to be a spiteful confrontational little wretch, why on earth would you prevent your DD from playing with her? You might think they don't know each other very well but they might be spending lots of time playing or working together at school.

When I was growing up I lived in a pretty rough area, we were one of the few people that owned a house instead of living on the council estate, and I used to get beaten up for being "posh" (which is a complete joke, we had no central heating, threadbare carpets, ancient broken furniture and all our clothes were hand me downs or jumble buys... my family of 4 survived on my Dad's student grant for 3 years - imagine!) I had my best friend through middle school and into high school whose Mum had shacked up with a drug addict and spent most afternoons stoned on the sofa. When I went round there I didn't really understand what was going on, but I knew that it didn't seem like a very constructive way to live, and to be honest it probably put me off experimenting with drugs when I went to college and they were readily available. I really was grateful to go home to my nice, caring attentive mother who didn't swear at me and always made my dinner. I didn't really pity my friend as she was an independent little thing and had a sense of adventure that I enjoyed sharing - no doubt she'd learned to entertain herself because of her family and I was slightly in awe of her devil may care attitude and the freedom she had. I think we probably learned a lot from spending time together, I was a voice of reason (being the timid one who worried about getting into trouble) and she was the free spirit with an amazing imagination. I remember being blissfully happy when we played together, in the park, at school, in each other's bedrooms. We never DID get into any trouble, by the way!

I was uncomfortable going round there sometimes, but my friendship with this girl lasted for 10 years and we've just gotten back in touch.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it's really important to be able to choose your friends at that age, and that even though my mother was vaguely horrified by B's Mum, she talked to me about what we thought appropriate behaviour was and then left me to figure out how to apply that to MY relationships and life. She had enough trust in me to know that I wouldn't be led astray and that in itself boosted my self esteem so that I could voice my concerns and feel happy setting boundaries. I think it's actually pretty healthy to mix with all sorts of people, there's no way your daughter will only ever mix with perfect middle class families as she grows up. DD will be able to figure out how to balance the friendship so she feels safe and comfortable whilst still enjoying this girl's company (of course you will be there to help and support her with this!). That's a really valuable thing to learn, and I think you'd be doing her a disservice preventing her mixing with someone she obviously has affection for.

Cold tits, that post is great!

Totally agree, NiftyNanny

An excellent post from NiftyNanny-nothing to add really!

I think you should trust your dd's choice of friend.
It seems like we need to control every aspect of our kids' lives these days.
I would let her go if she enjoyed doing so.

Yes, good post Nifty