to wonder whether good parenting has to be about sacrifice?

[ljhooray]

OK deliberately provoking allsorts of debate with this title I know but I'm really intrigued to see what people's opinions on this are, having taken part in some discussions on a whole range of subjects over the past few weeks. So why this OP - well I'm thinking of having just one child as it means that me and dh get to spend plenty of time with dh and can still to a limited extent follow some of our own interests (is that selfish and not making the sacrifices to give dd a sibling?), I ff as I found bf too difficult (some would argue I should have tried harder!), although I have to work, if money was not so tight, I would probably still work some of the week (time I could devote to my dd). SO what do we all think? can't wait to see this discussion get going!

1. You don't have to be massively self-sacrificing to be a parent IMO. You just have a responsibility to do a good enough job. It might involve a degree of sacrifice, but this is not the only attribute needed.

1. Having children amongst us makes us more outward-looking, humane and emphathetic as a society, and I would like to see more recognition of that, and less of the 'children are a lifestyle accessory' attitude.

'Nuff said.

I feel a bit like that.
Bitterly regret No 4, but there's nothing that can be done now.

I have sometimes noticed other people's attitudes to mothers can be: if you're not actively making yourself suffer, you're a lousy parent, which I think is deeply unhealthy. I think it's profoundly important to devote some time and effort to your own wellbeing when you are a parent, otherwise you turn into either a bitter short tempered ratbag or a whining martyr, neither of which is a good role model for DC.
There's also, for some people, the perennial problem of sexism: the couple 'agree together' that the DW will stay at home and unless they are very aware and work very hard, the DH will basically continue his life as normal and slowly but surely start to regard her as a domestic appliance whose wishes/complaints can be dismissed as 'nagging woman/unimportant'. Less decent men will often say things like, what do you mean you want time to yourself, you're a mother (meaning 'I am entitled to time off because I am a Man, but I have no intention of doing any childcare to allow you any free time, you are only a woman.')

I think I have lots of regrets, regrets about bad times with chldren, regrets about bad times with dh and all things what could should have been different in certain situation, but after a bit I think you just keep walking the road ahead, glad that you can walk at all, or that the scenery is changing.

Good parenting is about investing love, time, thought, energy, money etc
Not the same as sacrificing.

I would go as far as saying that if you feel you are making sacrifices
you need to address that feeling or your circumstances.

Not much fun bringing up children and feeling resentful about it.
It's worth doing, so do it right.

I like that way of putting it but I still don't see why sacrifice has to involve regret or resentment.

But I guess we all interpret words differently.

To be able to invest sustainably you need to look after yourself.
Your mental and physical health, your social life, your finances.

So spending some time on your own interests (to pick up the OP's point)
is actually very much conducive to good parenting.
As is not doing bf if it fucking kills you. Give the kid the bottle and move on.

After all, isn't the original meaning of sacrifice an offering?

I think all good relationships will involve sacrifice...or maybe compromise is a better word.

Certainly I make 'sacrifices' with DH to make our marriage work - sometimes he annoys me and I choose to keep my mouth shut and let it go for the sake of peace between us (thereby 'sacrificing' my right to say what I think) - but it pays off, and I certainly don't regret it as our relationship is far better than it would be if I nagged about every small thing.

With my kids - I expect to sacrifice to them too. Today I played with Thomas trains for an hour and did a Thomas puzzle 3 times with DS - A sacrifice of my MN time! By spending money on their clothes I have less money for myself...lost fo sacrifices, but no, for me, no regrets.

Well I personally feel I've made huge sacrifices to have just one child. I have recently been made redundant and because of our circumstances (too boring to go into but to do with where dh works and the problems involved in getting ds to school when he starts in Sept) we have moved to be closer to dh's work (70 miles away).

I basically gave up any chance of furthering my current career at the moment as where we now are has almost zero opportunities for me unless I go back to work fulltime in a far more junior and even that is difficult for me in the current climate.

I spent 5 years nurturing a strong local support netwoprk of friends as we have very little available family. . Just as I was beginning to reap the benefits of this I've moved to somewhere I know no-one and have to start again. A difficult but essential task when you only have one child.

I don't really like it here but I have already told dh that only an earth shattering event will make me move again as I think ds as an only child needs a strong support netwprk (as do I) and I'm not investing loads of time in this to have to start again in 5 years.

Personally I thinh one child is the worst of all worlds. If I didn;t have ds I'd have stayed in London and found another full time job. if i had more children I'd worry less about making friends and helping ds to have some other children around. So personally for me the 'sacrifice' involved in having one child is far greater than in having none or more than one.

When I was living at home my mother had no time to spare at all. (I felt guilty about this.) Now she is retired and has no dependents... she still has no time to spare at all. It is slowly dawning on me that for some people there is an element of choice in their "sacrifices" and it is making me hope that I can be self aware about this when I am a parent.

xenia - nannies, horses ski-ing? 10k a child?

What I would give for all for that, as an adult! [jealous]

I don't think I'm posh or rich enough to me on mumsnet, have suspected this for a while....Perhaps I need to sacrifice more to provide my children with these things.

However,i think it's true that compromise is the key.

I have 2 children, 3 and 1 just now and obviously their needs will change as they get older and eventually they will leave home - this is when i can resume the fancy holidays, clothes for me, spare money to spend as I wish...(that's the the theory anyway!)

Hi everyone, sorry work got in the way of any more posts but loving the discussion and feel it's only fair as I posted the OP to give my opinion too. Totally agree with those about setting the exmaple of following interests and maintaining friendships but of course without compromising time with children and lets not forget, time with dh! My parents have virtually no interests and did little to maintain any friendships and I think that makes their later years tough. I've often worried about probably the most common issue that is raised on one child discussions about elderly parents and the burden of responsibility but I have 3 sisters and the lion's share still falls to me anyway! It's not an easy balance to strike but investing in you, your partner, our friends and interests sets a good exmaple to children in developing a good support network and emotional and physical wellbeing. DD is the most important thing in my life and in addition to the time we spend together anyway, if she needs me, others things will be compromised first.
What I've also found very interesting is no one supporting my guilt ridden thoughts about being selfish having one, I feel soooo much better!

I dont think good parenting is about sacrifice. Speaking for myself I feel I offered the appropriate care and time for my children at their appropriate stages but those stages and needs change and we adapt. Eg. when they were little if they were poorly when I was going out I wouldnt go, preferring to stay home to look after them, now I would make sure I took my mobile and asked them to call if there was a problem . I do still like to be here for them when they get in from school though. I think my parents sacrificed a lot when we were young though, they never seemed to go out, or have money, or anything else for that matter that separated them from us as children (3 girls - you would just need to get out wouldnt you?) I couldnt live like that but then my children are more confident than we were.

justneedsomeskissleep I don't think xenia is typical of MNers- she's in a league of her own!

I like the idea someone suggested of 'sacrifice' meaning an offering. The term 'sacrifice' is a bit loaded IMO.

It's been tough accepting that my body has changed, my friends have changed, my relationships have changed, my career is... as someone else put it, buggered! and that basically life will never be the same again! But that's life; that's children. It's about reorganisation of priorities and comprimise rather than matrydom/sacrifice.

I tend to agree with Astrophe,

Don't all relationships involve some kind of compromise?
Going out with friends even involves some sort of debate about who wants to go where and occasionally I will go with the majority, although I would have preferred to do something else.
The same is true with being a parent, the money I would have had, the holidays I would have had (instead of "child friendly" ones), the beautifully decorated pale coloured home etc.
But the opposite is also true the benefits the kids have brought outweigh all this.

Xenia is right: "The secret as a mother is to ensure you don't become the martyr who then berates the child for life about what you gave up for the child. Make a choice about how you;ll do things and then realise it was for the best." It doesn't matter whether you agree with her choices or not - it's being happy with your own that is the key. I've not been able to work since my children were born as my husband has a job which involves us moving all over the world. It wouldn't suit everyone, but I can live with it (very happily in fact)and I don't think of it as a sacrifice I just focus on all the benefits. To answer the OP's point about only having one child so she has more time with DH I would say having two children ensures I have more time with DH. Not when they were babies of course, but once they were old enough to play together (they are two years apart) life became much easier especially on days out and when we go away on holidays - two is so much easier than one.

What sacrifice?

We wanted children and we have carried on with life as before with a child. The child is a part of us, not a extra cost of money, or time!

I always feel as if I'm a selfish mother, I don't go out of my way to encourage expensive hobbies, provide somewhat niggardly pocket money and make my two work for any extras they need, but if I sit down and add up everything that I do do and what I can't do that I would like to do - such as keeping a horse, going on more holidays, entertaining more, I realise that I do actually subconsciously make sacrifices for my children. I would never fully fund them through uni, even if I could afford to becase it would not be good for them to get it entirely for free, but I will pay for some things. I think helathy compromise on expenditure and time is probably the best.

Agree with blackrock, although our children don't fit in with the life we had before them, we have adjusted our lives of course, but because we wanted to.

perfectly put hedgewitch

I don't see it as a compromise either, we knew what we were doing and wanted to do this. Maybe this is why our household is so happy.