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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that people with families who undertake huge "adventures" are selfish?

87 replies

IwishIwasmoreorganised · 22/02/2009 21:56

I'm just (half) watching (while mn'ing) a programme on BBC2 about a guy who attempted to kayak from Australia to New Zealand.

He unfortunately lost his life near the end of his journey.

He had a wife and a toddler aged son.

AIBU to think that this type of person is selfish for undertaking such a risky thing knowing that there was a significant chance that he could die en-route?

OP posts:
ninedragons · 23/02/2009 02:06

YANBU.

A while ago I read an article about a guy who was dying near the summit of Everest. His companions had managed to patch in a satellite call so he could say goodbye to his pregnant wife in New Zealand. I doubt there are many insurance companies who are going to pay out on a death incurred by such risk-taking behaviour, so the woman may well be up the creek financially as well as emotionally.

If you really can't live without the thrill of hypoxia and 2km vertical falls, you shouldn't have children. If my DH wanted to do something so dangerous, I would infer that he loved his hobby more than he loved his family.

I don't understand the "you may get hit by a bus" mentality. Would you say it to a parent who wanted to go on a coke binge four nights a week?

Astrophe · 23/02/2009 02:44

YANBU - Its selfish. Do you really think his little son will be proud of him when he grows up? He will probably say he is, but deep down I think the poor lad will be wondering why the kayaking/mountain climbing or whatever was more important than he was.

FAQinglovely · 23/02/2009 02:51

you mean like 1000's of other children whose fathers are alive but about as much use/have as much interest in their child as they do in watching paint dry??

I grew up wondering why my dad's photography (he used to take loads of photos and develop them himself at home) was more important that spending time with us.

Mind you - I often think the same today as he's still doing his photography type stuff (restoration now though) and it still comes before anything/anyone else.

Astrophe · 23/02/2009 03:04

Yes FAQ, just like all those other parents who are selfish in other ways.

FAQinglovely · 23/02/2009 03:08

hey but at least the kid can say well my led an expedition in the Antarctic, and climbed x,y,z mountains unlike the kids who say "well my dad left when I was X years old and I never saw him again" or " my dad used to spend all weekend at the pub"

or my mum used to spend all her waking time on Mumsnet>>>>>>>>>>>>>

FAQinglovely · 23/02/2009 03:18

\link{http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/aug/28/gender.familyandrelationships\interesting read) about Alison Hargreaves (interview with her husband 7yrs after her death)

FAQinglovely · 23/02/2009 03:21

and far from wondering why their mother did it - they're pretty much following in her footsteps!

nooka · 23/02/2009 05:58

I don't think it's selfish as much as self-centred, and there is nothing new about it. My father collects memoirs of explorers and they all (men and women too) were driven intense people with slightly dodgy social skills. I think it is a matter of different wiring. Why not say what a foolish wife for picking an unreliable husband and father? We are not talking about a hobby here, but a way of living.

warthog · 23/02/2009 06:53

yes, i do think it's selfish.

i gave up my passion because it was too dangerous and i had little kids. my kids are more important.

piscesmoon · 23/02/2009 07:49

I think that your link proves my point FAQinglovely. The adventurous person is likely to choose a partner who is happy to let him/her continue and the DCs are likely to follow in their footsteps. I don't see it as a problem because those of you who find it very selfish would never had had children with such a person anyway! It is just a different way of living. It would be selfish if both parents did something risky at the same time. The person who sets out on the adventure thinks they will succeed!

dweezle · 23/02/2009 07:50

I don't really understand people who do this sort of thing just 'because it's there'. Totally different scenario to actual explorers, who are travelling through/working in dangerous arenas to try and discover something which will increase the sum of our knowledge or make all our lives better.

The same for people in the forces - they are working in dangerous environments because this is their job, and there is usually a very good reason for it.

But, climbing Everest/kayaking/base jumping just for the hell of it...........why? Is there such a huge hole in your life that the only way you can fill it is by taking enormous risks for no purpose. And even the people eho do it for charity, wouldn't it make much more sense for sponsors just to give money to charity rather than have to pay for someone to jump out of an aeroplane / cycle through China?

piscesmoon · 23/02/2009 07:58

Life would be boring if we all thought the same dweezle! I don't think for a minute that it is because there is a hole in your life!
I am a coward so wouldn't do it, but I can understand those that do and think it lends itself to the rich tapestry of life. Everyone playing safe would be totally boring.
At this moment my DS is ice climbing-I don't wish to think about it but I wouldn't stop him! I can assure you he hasn't a hole in his life-he is living it to the full and taking every opportunity. I admire him for it and think it is far better than playing computer games.
I wouldn't hold anyone back by saying 'it is too dangerous'-you run a risk everytime you get in your car-it might be your last journey.

piscesmoon · 23/02/2009 09:21

'I don't really understand people who do this sort of thing just 'because it's there'. Totally different scenario to actual explorers, who are travelling through/working in dangerous arenas to try and discover something which will increase the sum of our knowledge or make all our lives better.

The same for people in the forces - they are working in dangerous environments because this is their job, and there is usually a very good reason for it.'

Explorers do it for the excitement and adventure! People join the forces for the career opportunities and the excitement and adventure. This is shown by the fact that people can have mundane jobs and yet join the TAs.They are not people who want to work 9-5 behind a desk. Fighter pilots are not doing it because it is their job and someone has to do it-they are in it for them!!

My DS started climbing at the local climbing wall when he was 8yrs old. He went because it looked fun and it was perfectly safe with trained instructors and ropes.(should I have said 'why do you want to climb up a pretend wall?-there must be a hole in your life!)
He went on an adventure week with the school and did climbing and abseiling-do you stop your DC from going in case there is an accident? He went on to do it with his Uncle, small easy climbs to begin with getting more difficult. He went with Scouts-do you ban scout camps because they do adventurous 'pointless' activities? He joined the university climbing club and went out with them. He did a mountain leadership course in Scotland and progressed to ice climbing. At what point do you say this is pointless-just doing it because it is there? If he has children is he supposed to give it up for 18yrs? I would have thought it much better to do it with his children if they are interested.
I didn't see the programme but all my DSs have been kayaking from between the ages of 6 and 8. It isn't something they have gone on to do much with but there is a natural progression at which point do you stop?
My passion is skiing. You learn on the nursery slopes, progress to blue, when that becomes easy you want more of a challenge and turn to red. Being a natural coward I am happy with that but DS2 wants black and off piste. He is young yet but if he has DCs should he ski black routes? Is there any point in getting a lift up the mountain and hurtling down it? Are people who do it all sad people with holes in their lives? I don't think so.
Life is for living and it is a risk. I think it is better to die early and have lived, than live to 100 and not done anything.
I didn't see the programme but I expect that he had discussed the risk with his partner. They had probably made provision for the DC. There are plenty of people on here who haven't made wills or even discussed guardianship with friends and family.
I am very glad I haven't a DH who wants to do a risky kayaking trip and yes it is rather selfish but I would have known what type of man I was marrying so wouldn't stop them.

BalloonSlayer · 23/02/2009 10:22

Amazed no one has mentioned that twat Richard Hammond yet.

Original poster
IwishIwasmoreorganised · 23/02/2009 10:32

Don't even start me on him..........

Mind you - do you think he and his wife have had words, he seems to be doing rather a lot of benign TV show presenting atm!

OP posts:
dizietsma · 23/02/2009 10:48

Well, I'm glad I'm not married to you, OP, YABU.

Life is full of risk anyway, just getting in a car you risk your life. A life without adventure is not worth living IMHO.

TheCrackFox · 23/02/2009 10:53

YANBU, it is very selfish.

It always seems to me that it is the little wifey left at home being a proper grown up.

I am surprised no one has mentioned that twat Ewan McGregor. His wife must be sick of him.

Original poster
IwishIwasmoreorganised · 23/02/2009 10:53

Each to their own dizietsma, but IMHO kayaking between Australia and New Zealand presents significantly more risk than driving my car.

OP posts:
FAQinglovely · 23/02/2009 10:57

CrackFox - Alison Hargreaves????

TheCrackFox · 23/02/2009 11:01

Alison Hargreaves is about the only woman anyone can think of. And yes, she was selfish.

FAQinglovely · 23/02/2009 11:02

well that's your opinion, reading those articles makes me feel otherwise.

FAQinglovely · 23/02/2009 11:11

and given the fact that it's only really in recent times that woman have accepted as being able do do these types of explorations, and still in the monitority of explorers (most being men) and that we only hear of the rare occasions when things have gone wrong it's hardly surprising really is it?

Though there's not to say there haven't been female explorers in the past - some very great ones.

FimbleHobbs · 23/02/2009 11:29

The spirit of adventure doesn't just leave though does it and it is hard to ignore it. I would love to do something adventurous (but don't have time or funds let alone the children issue) - I have put it aside but it feels like putting a bit of me aside with it.

I was surprised when I mentioned doing a parachute jump to my husband - he was horrified that I would consider doing something risky that could leave our children without a mother. Yet BC we used to go paragliding together.

So while they grow up I guess I will keep limiting my adventures to the more mundane. Anyway, must go, am off to Wilkos to buy a pie dish. See - I can still rock it!

FAQinglovely · 23/02/2009 11:33

and you get poor woman like Elisabeth Casteret who along with her husband was a caver, she had to (apparently) stop while pg each time - and sadly died in childbirth having her 5th child.

Or how about Josephine Diebitsch Peary who in 1893 gave birth to the first non-Inuit baby in the Artic while exploring with her husband.

Jane Goodall who continued her work with Chimpanzees even after her son's birth

I rather like what Junko Tabei (first woman to reach the top of Everest in 1975) is reported to have said when it was said that she would have been better off at home with her husband and children

" ?Scaling Mount Everest was easy compared to overcoming discrimination in Japan.?"

JodieO · 23/02/2009 11:40

I think it's selfish too. I'm sure lots of people give up doing risky things for "fun" once they have children, and rightly so imo. I can't imagine leaving my children without a mother just because I wanted to satisfy my own urges. Don't we all, supposedly, put our children first once we have them? I thought so at least.