to expect to use a disabled toilet when I'm out with the pram?

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I can't use the ladies when I have my baby with me in the pram. The only thing I can do is wheel him into the disabled toilet with me. But the disabled toilets have special locks on them, which presumably disabled people have special keys for. I appreciate that they want to stop able-bodied people hogging disabled toilets but what else can I do?

pmsl at EMERGENCY

I had no idea that using a toilet was so difficult. Really I must make sure to remember that everything in life must be very very difficult.

But we are not talking 'everyone' are we

Aren't they supposed to be called 'easy access' toilets nowadays and not 'disabled'. (Easy accesss for all who need it for whatever reason).

I want to know where all these always empty disabled toilets are anyway. I always note an occupied one as ds1 flips if he has to wait (which is why we scare the ladies in the ladies instead), they're often occupied.

Must be the same towns that have those disabled car parking spaces that are always empty (except for the ones occupied by princesses).

Well all I can say is the one in the M&S wher I live is always empty.
And I am not a princess.

MrsTurnip- All these empty disabled toilets? Indeed! Good luck to anyone trying to use the disabled toilet in any restauarant in Streatham high Rd - it will be occupied by: a motorbike, the cleaning buckets and trolley, a massive delivery of bottled water or possibly the sound system that they wheel out for wedding dos.

It was in an Italian restaurant in Streatham High Rd, that went into a fit of embarrassment and activity because they had used the disabled toilet to hide a secret motorbike that was a surprise present for their son!
Then in we came with DS and his wheelchair, and they had the motorbike in the restaurant and nowhere to out it....

Now, DS can walk short distances with crutches, but he couldn't then!

I am not disabled, nor do I have a disabled child. I do know a bit about the campaigning that has been done and the very very few rights disabled people have in a society that really disregards the needs of disabled people.

But another feature of that fight is the recognition that impairment is different to disability. And that it is society, ie the rest of us, including crap planners and designers and shop owners, who 'do' the disabling. I also get the point that many impairments are lasting and require management and care from others in quite a different way to caring for children.

So yes, it is the responsibility of able-bodied parents not to act like 'princesses'. And therefore not to use disabled toilets unless absolutely necessary.

But, once again, it is NOT a valid argument to respond 'leave the door open', 'put your baby on the floor' 'sit with them on your knee'. As I posted earlier, there are many reasons why this is not possible, desirable or a good idea. Parents with babies and pushchairs are not 'disabled' but they are socially excluded, for short periods of time, in this respect by the poor planning of inadequate toilet facilities.

I agree, parents should not be individually 'needy' and should indeed get off their arses and campaign for better public toilet provision.

None of what I have said should be taken to imply I think it is OK to willy nilly use disabled toilets: I don't. But I do think there are often circumstances where it is entirely understandable that people do and I don't think they deserve the lashing they are getting on here.

Eidsvold, you have missed the point again, sorry.

Things I agree with:

• That out of courtesy and respect people who are not disabled should avoid using disabled toilets.
• That there not being enough toilets with space is an issue that people should take up, write to their MPs about etc. etc.
• That having a pram is not a disability (ffs - talk about a straw man!).
• That there are many ways in which people with prams and infants can try to solve the problem of it being difficult to use normal toilets.
• That needing a disabled toilet is not just about needing space, it can also be a case of urgency and needing as instant access as possible.

Things I disagree with:

• That one of those many ways of managing infants and toddlers, prams and toilets will always work and anyone who claims that they've tried everything else is just making up excuses to use a disabled toilet.
• That there is no conceivable situation ever in which a not officially disabled person could have a need that justifies them using a disabled toilet.

Someone suggested using the gents - I have done this in the past though not with a pushchair! It's not a general option, though, any more than using the disabled toilet should be, and plenty of men would complain if it was treated like that.

It's horses for courses isn't it? Sometimes the best 'emergency' option when you're stuck with small children and a pram will be not going to the toilet at all, sometimes it will be going to the toilet with the door open, sometimes it will be asking a stranger for help, sometimes (even if 1000x more rarely than any other option) it will be a disabled toilet. So far I've never needed to use a disabled toilet with a pram, but I'm not stupid enough to rule it out completely any more than I would rule out ever in my life having to wee behind a hedge if a car broke down.

MrsTurnip if you can p yourself laughing then your pelvic floor must need some improvement....

And as for this 'what about deaf people thenm, why should THEY have special privelidges' argument (gosh - why are people so CONFRONTATIONAL and YEAH, WHAT ABOUT THAT THEN!! on this thread? There is some interesting stuff on here - stuff that i didn't know, and have learned from):

I have a v good friend who is deaf and i have never known her - or any of her deaf friends - use a physically acccessible toilet by virtue of their deafness. Perhaps it's because they have an understanding of the needs of people with physical and other disabilities?

I agree with wilfsell (especially the last paragraph), who has put it much better.

Wilfsell and playdoughoctopus very well said and reasonable.

If I see a mum with buggy who leaves buggy with child outside whilst she goes for a wee, I will always hovver about until mum comes out of the loo.

Would never forgive myself if someone nicked the baby!!

Its quite obvious to me that they should make a larger cubicle in the ladies (and gents) to accommodate parents and buggies.

I can see the MN thread now:
AIBU: Shopping centre provides buggy-sized toilets and the other day I was waiting and a woman without a buggy came out! AIBU in wanting to kill her???????'

Cue 600 posts from outraged MN-ers saying that buggy-sized toilets, just like P&T parking spaces should be for those who need them because of buggies ONLY!
MN will be over-run with threads about 'P&T toilets' just as it is with parking.

y bronze on Wed 11-Feb-09 13:20:01
I've already said its not something I have to worry about generally but

I'm intrigued again.
Those with disabled children (for arguments sake ina wheelchair) what do you do when you (the carer) need a wee but your child doesnt

wanted to answer this.
I would leave dd outside, in her wheelchair, cos if anyone tried to touch her, I would know as the noise she would make would be loud.
tbh though I would get her to go at the same time, as she uses a toilet aid, so i can wee whilst she wee's) but as she is 13 and in an adult wheelchair, she needs the space.

comparethePeachydotcom, mrsturnip & eidsvold, just want to say thanks for your responses to my question.

I forgot to add that on the odd occasion I do use the disabled toilet it is not for ME but the DDs, I got a bit confused there, I go before I go out and that does me fortunately but if on my own and I get the "I need a PEE-PEE NOW Mummy I am going to pee my pants", it's look for the first toilet I can" and if it is a disabled, then I will wheel the pram in, one DD on, other DD on and off we go quick as we can. DD1 has such a weak bladder any day out is ruled by toilet breaks, at age 4 now she will not use a potty in a park for example. I would only use a disabled toilet as a last resort in an emergency.

In our local supermarket the disabled toilet and baby change is beside the entrance but the gents and ladies is at the rear of the whole supermarket upstairs behind the cafe and down a corridor, the disabled toilet is used by everyone laziness probably. I also don't agree with the baby change being in the disabled toilet but then they would have to put one in the ladies and one in the gents and thats more space.

I don't understand why the disabled toilet need to be a separate toilet with a lock, in an ideal world there should be 2 or more larger access toilets in both the ladies and gents but guess thats a wider issue.

Thanks monkey (a few excercises means I am a 'clean' woman now!!).