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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to expect to use a disabled toilet when I'm out with the pram?

734 replies

CT123 · 10/02/2009 19:17

I can't use the ladies when I have my baby with me in the pram. The only thing I can do is wheel him into the disabled toilet with me. But the disabled toilets have special locks on them, which presumably disabled people have special keys for. I appreciate that they want to stop able-bodied people hogging disabled toilets but what else can I do?

OP posts:
LackaDAISYcal · 11/02/2009 14:30

At the minute, I can't goodomen!

Divineintervention · 11/02/2009 14:34

I have used, and would continue to, a toilet for people with disabilities. I would not if a) I could use another toilet or b) if someone with a disability was waiting.
FFS if you need to go you need to go.
Why shouldn't people use a free toilet? What circumstance would have to happen for a quick wee to be too long a time for an unseen (therefore nowhere near the toilet) person to need to use the toilet within say a minute? What if someone disabled was ahead.
I find this thread fascinating, need is need having a disability does not mean you are more important than someone else who needs a toilet with space (ie with a pram).

FAQinglovely · 11/02/2009 14:35

like spicemonster - I've only ever actually used a disabled toilet when it's also double as the baby changing (which most of them in my town are).

Absolutely no way in hell would I leave any of my children outside the cubicle in the local public toilets, I get nervous going into them on my own (although incidently I sent DS1 off for his first ever trip to the mens toilets on his own just before Christmas at St. Pancras train so I'm not paranoid)

eidsvold · 11/02/2009 14:36

I haven't missed the point.

You are equating being disabled and needing a disabled toilet the same as needing a disabled toilet because you have a buggy/stroller. They are not the same.

My child physically needs a disabled toilet for a number of reasons. She needs it because she has a disability. Having a pram may be an inconvenience but it is not a disability. Simple as that.

if dd1 had an accident and all that goes with that because a disabled person was using the toilet and we were unable to make it to another disabled toilet - fair enough BUT if my dd1 had the accident and all that comes with that because you did not want to use a 'normal' toilet and leave a door open then I would not be impressed.

KERALA1 · 11/02/2009 14:38

I read a very good article a while back about how public spaces were often designed by men without a thought as to how parents with buggies will negotiate them. Shocking that we even have this debate really. Shopping centres, anywhere public with loos should cater for those with small children without having to encroach on disabled loos.

If you have a sleeping baby in a buggy and a lively toddler I really dont see that you have a choice but to use the disabled loo. Also often the regular loos are up lots of stairs. Frankly impossible to get a double buggy up 2 flights of stairs unaided. Far better to go internet shopping during toddlers nap and whilst bfing the baby

SparklyGothKat · 11/02/2009 14:41

sorry Divine, I have just PMSL at your post... of course a disabled person has more right than a pram!!!!

eidsvold · 11/02/2009 14:41

look - whatever you have to tell yourself to feel okay about it - fine but one day you may find yourself in the shoes of myself or sparkly or 2shoes or others and then you will really understand.

My child needs to go, she needs to go, she also needs a handrail or will fall flat on her face, also needs somewhere that I can change her when she has soiled her pants.

I need to go, I need to go - I use a normal toilet not the nearest one.

If you want to use that analogy - you need to go, you need to go - do you use the male toilets if they happen to be the nearest (which can be the case) instead of the disabled?

Divineintervention · 11/02/2009 14:42

Post baby my bladder will not wait for home time, I have to use the toilet if it's a disabled toilet then it is. Also being heavily pregnant with a toddler who can't wait means I would have to use the disabled toilet.

Divineintervention · 11/02/2009 14:44

Why does a disabled person, who needs extra space, have more right than a person with a pram, who needs extra space?

Divineintervention · 11/02/2009 14:45

If the person with a pram could wait then I'm sure they would, but if they can't shall we ask them to piss on the floor?

Divineintervention · 11/02/2009 14:46

PS It's not like these people are at the toilet door and it's a decision who goes first.

NeedCoffee · 11/02/2009 14:47

FFS! Agree with Scottishmummy and all thre others that are using common sense. Nobody is saying that they have more right over a disabled person to use a disabled toilet to go to the toilet or change their baby. why does everyone get on their high horses on MN. Why has noone answered Marlasinger? What would you suggest she do then? Stay at home?

SparklyGothKat · 11/02/2009 14:48

because they are DISABLED!!! The toliets do not say 'disabled and prams' They say Disabled for a reason...

NeedCoffee · 11/02/2009 14:49

so it is entirely up to what the sinage says as to whether you're allowed to go in with a pram or not? so its up to the shop/shopping centre ..etc to decide?

SparklyGothKat · 11/02/2009 14:49

' need is need having a disability does not mean you are more important than someone else who needs a toilet with space (ie with a pram).'

Is that not saying that a disabled person isn't more important???

playdoughoctopus · 11/02/2009 14:50

No, I am most definitely not equating those two things. I have been really clear about that. Of course I don't think they're the same thing - show me one place where I've said that?! I've also made it clear that I would do everything I possibly could before using a disabled toilet including using end cubicles (i.e. to leave the door open) and so on. I'm talking about the situation when I've exhausted all those possibilities - a situation some people seem to think simply cannot exist.

I'm disagreeing with the idea that by definition someone who is not disabled can never, ever have have a need strong enough to justify using a disabled toilet. That's not the same thing as equating having a pram and a disability. For goodness sake! I've got a close relative with a severe disability (needs a lot of help with going to the toilet, needs it urgently, has almost no mobility of any part of his body at times). I know the difference! But unlike some it seems I don't see the world in black and white, disabled people good and genuine, nondisabled bad, selfish, lazy and stupid such that nothing could ever justify them using a disabled toilet.

Divineintervention · 11/02/2009 14:50

What is the reason though? For some it's just space needed, like a pram.....
I don't feel using a disabled toilet, in the instance that you need the space and cannot wait, is a moral choice....it's necessity.

SexyLacyKnickersOnMaHead · 11/02/2009 14:50

No-one has said buggies have more right over someone with a disability

Hides thread.

Divineintervention · 11/02/2009 14:54

A disabled person is not more important..nobody is. (haven't the brainpower to work out what your double negative meant...a reflcetion of my lack of sleep not your english)
A disabled person usually has greater need for this toilet but if I go to a place and my only choice is to use a toilet fro the disabled then I will, driving home with my pelvic floor is not an option.

FioFio · 11/02/2009 14:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

SparklyGothKat · 11/02/2009 14:55

so when my 11 year old has soiled himself (how embarrassed would you be?) because someone with a buggy is in the loo, I should just accept that and say 'oh its ok, you have just as much need as my son??'

eidsvold · 11/02/2009 14:56

Playdough you made me laugh with your comment about:

"so now the fault lies not in using a disabled toilet in desperation, but rather in having not done enough campaigning so there isn't a better toilet there. But it's still all the fault of the nondisabled parent using the disabled toilet, because that's their role in this, isn't it? To be the ones in the wrong, regardless of how that may be argued. "

What do you think people within the disabled community have been doing for years and continue to do in order to have even a smidgeon of the acceptability and opportunities that nt people have. People with special needs have had to fight for recognition and acceptance every step of the way. Don't like something - fight to change it - don't use it as an excuse to make life more difficult for those around you.

keepingitRia · 11/02/2009 14:56

kind of an aside from the main point, but I live in a large village, and due to our borough council cuts and unwillingness from the parish council, our toilets have been closed. My Mum who is perfectly able-bodied, is now unable to walk up to the local shop/walk to village events because of bladder problems and probably IBS. She is an adult and couldn't wait until she got home. Every trip out they make/journey is planned around knowing where toilets are, she is always equipped with a change of underclothes and has been in the same predicament as Embarrassed10 mentioed in her post on Wed 11-Feb-09 10:43:10
"...Imagine slumped against the toilet wall with cheeks burning with shame and embarrassment, tears rolling down your face. Imagine trying to get in some kind of state to get yourself home without further humiliation."

I do disagree with buying a radar key if not entitled though.

as another aside, one local supermarket has just refurbed and instead of male, female (3 cubicles) & disabled toilet and a baby change/feed room, they now have 2 unisex/disabled/baby change cubicles (very inadequate provision and very badly thought out). So if I have been queueing for ages and then a disabled person joins the queue directly behind me, can I offer them my place in the queue without being patronising, or should I just go ahead first? In this instance it is difficult to know what to do, where I would think twice about using the disabled toilet elsewhere (although I'm afraid I would still take the pram in with me to one that doubled as a changing room)

Goodomen · 11/02/2009 14:56

Your ignorance is astonishing divineintervention.

If there is not enough space for your pram, take your child out of your pram and bring him/her into the loo with you.

FGS even at home more often that not I have one of my children in the bathroom with me when going to the loo! It's not that hard.

abraid · 11/02/2009 14:57

I left my babies outside the cubicle in the pram when I had a wee. Usually this was somewhere like an M & S in a smallish town so the chances of baby theft were remote.

I think we can worry about things that are not going to happen. Baby theft is very rare.

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