to be upset that some of DSs classmates mums have told their DCs not to play with him....

[CrappyMammy]

DS (age7) is a real handful and have always been a real PITAchallenging. Since he started school he has been involved in pushing and hitting other kids (not the only one I might add). Anyway he did not want to give out some of his birthday invites and when I asked him why, he said because a few of his 'friends' have told him that their mums have said that they should stay away from him because he hurts them. I have not been aware of this although his teacher has told me on a few occasions that he has been involved in fighting (he does come home sometimes with bruises and scratchmarks so it's not all one sided).

IMO if he is attacking other kids, I would prefer the parents to tell me (or the teacher)so he is not ostracised . None of the other parents speak to me at the school and I am sure it is because of his 'bad rep'. It is very hard trying to deal with his behaviour. He says he is 'just playing' and does crazy things to make the other kids laugh and his rough and tumble is interpreted as nastiness. Am really at a loss of what to do!!

Thank you Crappy, but I'm sure there are many many parents who would do the same, especially on here. Infact I think MN should be obligatory for all parents.
Thinking about this some more, I think the problem with schools dealing with problems is the confidentiality issue.
If your dc is being bullied they can't say, well, that dc has SN, or emotional issues, they just tell you they are looking into it. Compassion and empathy comes from understanding and if you never get a chance to understand the problem it's very hard to be sympathetic towards it.

Crappymammy - So what do you say/do to your son, when the school tell you he has been pushing/hitting other kids?

Back to you Crappy.
Prepare yourself for the meeting. What behaviour would you like to deal with specifically? Have your ds's academic issues been resolved? Does he have an IEP in place? How do you deal with the behaviour at home? does it work?

Claw - conversation normally goes like this: 'DS, Mrs X has told me that you have doing xyz, why did you do that?'
'I don't know'
'Don't know is not an answer - tell me the truth'
'X was being nasty to me'
'DS, you know you should'nt do that cos other kids don't like it when you hurt them and it's not nice, if someone hurts you or calls names, you must tell the teacher, not do it back'
'OK, I promise I won't do it again'
Have also withdrawn trips to the cinema etc and sent to room to think about behaviour (still does'nt know why does it!).

I think it sounds like you should push for more help, maybe the Ed Psych. It does sound like he needs help to control his impulses and understand how he affects other people. You want to get something in place before there is a real accident.

from ds's story, I reckon his boisterous friend actually knocked him out cold one day -noone noticed and he didn't tell me until afterwards, but as you can appreciate that could have been very serious. And this was not a nasty little boy, just very boisterous

Crappy - I have 3 sons, 15, 12 and 5. The 15 year old cant always tell me 'why'. I dont bother to ask why, to be honest i dont care why. There is certain behaviour that they know is unacceptable.

Ny 12 year old for example, there is no reason good enough that he could give me for being rude to a teacher. Conversation goes like this, your teacher phoned me today and told me you were rude to him, that means you wont be watching TV tonight, end of.

DS has improved academically (I put it down to fish oils!)is still at reception level, but hey any improvement is enough for me!! He does now enjoy reading aloud and attempting the words which is another breakthrough.

He does have an IEP which we are working to.

Behavior at home - make him apologise for misdeeds, sent to room when really bad or having a tantrum (I tell him to go upstairs until he calms down so does not get attention), sitting on top step when he won't go to sleep at night and is jumping all over DS1, has missed a few treats and going out (I must say this really really pains me!). The most annoying thing about him is his constant jumping about which I have now become immune to and tend to ignore.

Yes, but you can't expect the school to be immune to it, especially if it worries or distracts the other children. He may need help, he very likely does, but they can't just let it go, not fair on the other children.

I think it sounds like he is struggling with the social situation and needs more help.

I think speaking to the school first is definitely the best way to go. Obviously if you know a parent well enough to discuss sensitive issues then go ahead, but just approaching any parent is not really appropriate. You dont know what other stresses that parent might be going through. And lets remember, if there is one subject we are going to be defensive about its our children and rightly so. It must be awful to hear through your ds that children have been told not to play with him, but i would have told my dc the same if anyone was hurting them, i would definitely speak to the teacher and find out if it is a daily occurence or rarely happens. Ask them what time of day it happens, is he disruptive or loud during lessons or is it a case of being over-excited at playtime. Is he always aggressive towards the same child? At least when you get some of these answers you will know where to start in working with the school to help your ds. And lets remember at the end of all this that he is 7 years old, its not abnormal to show his excitement in this way, i bet by next year it will all be forgotten.

nbn - whilst i do appreciate the conversation has moved on largely to reflect my original advice , the age-old maxim 'do as i say, not what i do' is sure to apply.
my apologies if i offended your sensibilities - it was a quick (and extremely childish) reaction to your assumption that your brief observation was in some way superior to the lengthier involvement of the professionals, and that parents were innately able to provide a solution to a school based problem.

i still stand by my advice to open lines of communication with both the school and other parents involved if necessary, however poorly i responded to our difference of opinion. i suspect that my 'poor social and communication skills' (rofl) wouldn't be quite so obvious in the head teacher's office requesting support for any child involved, whether the child having difficulty with his social skills, or those on the receiving end. i think it is a shame that you are advocating the OP does not use the full range of communication available in this instance, which could lead to better support being put in place, but we will have to agree to disagree on this one. i also think it stands as a timely reminder that opinions on these issues between parents do differ wildly, which is why opening communication with the parents in the first instance is not always wise. you might get one like me who insists on marching you to the school office lol

crappy mummy, what a terrible situation...I can understand both sides to this, tbh...

Is your son aware that it is HIS behaviour that causes the other parents to advice their Kids against playing with him?

A 7 year old child is still only little....when you say challenging behaiour, are there otehr issues involved or is he just a "rough and tumbly" sort of child?

I would switch off Power Rangers if its influencing him.

The thing is, I try not to get involved in my kids little squabbles, So if one of my ds' told me another child was hurting them, I'd just tell them to play with somebody else and I wouldn't speak to either the other child's parents or the school unless I thought it was a more serious problem (like bullying). That wouldn't be a judgment on the other child or their parent I just don't feel the need to get to the bottom of every little incident - would rather they learnt to handle it (although of course would step in if things escalated).

Ask for a meeting with the teacher, and the senco if need be.
I am sorry to say that having had experience of this sort of thing first hand (a child in DS1s reception class was very much how you describe your son but I tried to befriend the mum and DS1 was fiends with the boy until the boy began picking on DS1 so badly throughout the whole of years 2 to 6 I had him cautioned by the police )I would be one of the parents telling my child to stay the hell away.

You sound as if you want to help your son, and you are willing to except the sun does not shine from his backside so I think half your battle is won (the mother of the boy who bullied DS1 was so far in denial of what a horror her child was it was frightening).

You seem to be a caring mum and i am sorry you are hurt by the other children and parents reactions but it IS only natural for them to tell their children to stay away from a child that hurts them and is not very nice.
As I said I think you need to speak to the teacher/head/senco and see what help there is for your son. I hope it works out for you both

Sorry just seen you DS has an IEP, does he have an LSA? I think this could be a big big help.

Kimi - of course I want to help my son and also want to change things earlier rather than later so it does not develop into anything more sinister and the more the other children push him away (which is understandable and I don't blame them), the worse it could get. Saying that most of the children we invited to his bday party are coming so maybe things are not as bad as I think. I really do get very stressed out about this .

What is an LSA then? You got me all excited now!!

Shit - forgot to namechange back.

L.S.A. leaning support assistant. Ask the head for a meeting with the senco as you DS has a IEP I think this could be the next step.
I wish the boy in DS1 class had had a mum like you, who wanted to help her child.

Also have you tried having play dates, one to one might help.

It is hard to see your child being left out and sometimes a chat with some of the mum (the more understanding ones at least) can help.

I hope your DS has a great birthday party.

well madwoman, as I said, its a cultural difference partly, rather than a question of right and wrong.
Re "2 minutes" (your words, not mine) Do not think, that just because you suck some information out of people on mumsnet, that you have the whole story. The bullying of dd was part of a larger bullying story involving some families who thought they could bully others. The teachers didnt live in the village, so in fact, I was far more clued up about the whole picture than they were. Comes back to the community thing - we were part of one, so speaking directly to the parent was simply the right thing to do.

Nobody "marches" me anywhere (why can't you stop being patronising or aggressive?) - as I said before, if sorting a problem out informally doesnt work, I'll escalate it to a formal issue with the school. Result, that the aggressor will be labelled a bully. Where I live, that's serious - the school social worker would have a record of them, it might go to SS, I am not sure. But at least I would have given teh parents the opportunity to sort it out themselves first.

nightbynight... agree with your posts.

Whether it happens at school or not they are your children, you are quite entitled to talk to other parents without the bloody schools permission....

Cory - if you can't talk to other parents at the 'school gate' without fear, then perhaps you need to move.

I agree with Madwoman in the attic and cory and others - the hitting etc needs to be nipped in the bud - but sounds like this poor lad is really struggling at school - academically, socially etc - and needs better support and supervision in school. Moving school wouldn't help in terms of the parents - but (if the school was very carefully selected) it could potentially help in terms of teaching/special educational needs support if you are unhappy with how the school are handling his academic and other issues.

CM, have just seen this thread and may be repeating a few things but have you had your ds evaluated for sensory issues? It sounds as if he may be a Sensory Seeker or have some other Sensory Processing Disorder type things going on. This could be affecting his problems with concentration. Or, possibly, some oculomotor issues. A behavioral/developmental optometrist could advise you on that. There is a wonderful book called Raising Your Spirited Child that may give you some advice.

Good luck Kids like this take a lot of energy.

Speak to your GP and ask for an assessment of your DS at the local Child Development Centre.

There could be any number of things going on here for which punishment and blame are not the answer. You need to get to the bottom of why he has these problems-and don't rely on the school to "know" because they are often not good at spotting a problem.They are all to eager to label a child as "naughty" rather than as having a real problem and have little knowledge as to how to spot certain conditions.