to think that the CRB check is done by sexist tosspots?

[solidgoldbullet4myvalentine]

Grr. Grr grr. Have just had an ever-so-polite call from occasional employer re my CRB check form: I use Ms rather than Miss or Mrs so they want to know if I have ever 'had another surname' - the implication being that only bitter divorced feminist hags use Ms, presumably. Does this annoy anyone else?

And whilst we are at it, should we invent a term to indicate if a man is divorced? No? Thought not...

YANBU by the way.

this happened to me too sgb. Can't believe they persist in doing it...[i complained]

Was there not a space on the CRB form for any other names you have been known by? If not, I am very surprised. Perhaps the query was because you hadn't completed that section of the form, and nothing to do with you using Ms as a title.

I think YAB a bit U. I use Ms, even though I am happily married. Ms is not just for 'bitter divorced feminist hags'

YearOf - the whole point is that there was a space on the form for other names and the OP indicated that she didn't have any other names and nonetheless, they chose to ignore this because as a 'ms' she must have used another name at some point. i.e. they didn't believe what she had written.

Ok - have just read through the whole thread, and see that you did complete this section.

Do we actually know that it is the policy of the CRB to assume that Ms indicates divorce, and that the information declared on the box for 'other names' must therefore be queried? Or was it just an over thorough individual completing the check?

I do know that loads of people (both men & women) use aliases to cover up their background, so although it is a pain in the ass, the CRB needs to be thorough. I'm sure lots of cross checking takes place with mens applications also - whether it be names, addresses, NI numbers etc.

Interesting. I have always been Ms, and didn't change my name when I married.

Now I am widowed, I am still Ms, but find everyone tries to call me Miss again, like some born again virgin. Thoroughly annoying.

"It's Mzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!" I snarl angrily when asked, and no-one has yet dared to ask me if I am divorced.

Like lots of people have said already, men don't get asked to explain their marital status all the bloody time to passing callers/shop assistants/people from the council etc.

(pokes impertinent people in groin with sharp umbrella, if only metaphorically).

Stewie - what exactly would you sue for? I would have thought you would need to demonstrate that women's applications are taking longer than mens.

Actually, as I type this, if there is a discernable difference in timescales, and people are losing money as a result - as a previous poster stated; she can't work whilst she is waiting for her clearance - then maybe it is a worthwhile case to pursue.

However, if the issue is that people get offended by being asked a question for clarification, then I think it is probably trivialising those people who really are facing more substantial sex discrimination issues.

For anyone who has the time or inclination, perhaps they should ask the CRB, under Freedom of Information:

What are the average processing times for male applicants, as opposed to female applicants?
What accounts for the difference in timescales (if any)?
What is the policy of CRB in relation to their interpretation of the title 'Ms' - does it denote that a woman has been divorced?
What is their policy in relation to making further checks in relation to a negative answer in response to 'other surnames' when an individual uses the title Ms.

Seems to me there are 2 issues about this; firstly the practical difficulties that this is causing some women and secondly the general principle of women being presumed to have made a mistake or lied if they don't want to declare their marital status.

YearOfTheCat's questions are good ones to ask in the first case.

In the second, I don't think it can ever be described as trivial to try to challenge people's assumptions about women's marital status being important or that not wanting to describe yourself purely in relation to your relationship to a man makes you automatically shifty. If this kind of thing is allowed to continue - especially by official bodies like the CRB - equality of women and men is never going to be achieved. Asking an organisation to at least look at its policies and procedures doesn't alter how other, more personally distressing, discrimination cases are handled.

Plantsitter - I would agree - by all means, the CRB should be asked for clarification, and to look at their policies.

I wouldn't suggest that it is a good idea to automatically sue for sex discrimination. My comment about trivialising more serious sex discrimination issues relates to the idea of 'political correctness gone mad'.

YANBU - it really peed me off too. Why Ms hasn't yet been accepted as the standard female equivalent of Mr is simply beyond me. Why marital status should be defined in the title of a woman but not a man is bloody infuriating!

smellyeli I read what you said with amazement - so male doctors can call themselvs dr but female doctors have to renounce their hard-earned title and call themselves simply miss or mrs. FFS.

While we're at it aren't all female consultant surgeons referred to as miss, irrespective of marital status? That would give the crb a heart attack I imagine...

Has anyone complained about this and if so, what was the response?

The whole thing beggars belief. Women are automatically assumed to be thick/lying no matter how clear they are on the form. And even after clafirication the CRB are contacting employers and accusing women of being liars - not great for people starting a new job is it.

I really don't understand how anyone could not see that as a huge problem.

YAB abit U

the thing is the forms are designed a certain way - the database has search criteria it isn't the person checking the form that is a toss pot - the form isn't great but it does have to be properly checked.

tumtetum - I'm not sure complaining would change much - very apathetic I know, but after 12 years in hospital medicine, I'm used to keeping shtum and quietly trying to push things forward from the inside..... I think surgeons can be Mrs. if they are married, but most of the ones I know keep their maiden name and go with Miss - yep, that must confuse the hell out of the CRB!

But greyskull how can it be OK for someone to complete the form fully, include covering letters, speak to them on the phone, send off all relevant documents (marriage certs etc) only to have the CRB contact the prospective employer to tell them that you are a liar?

How can that possibly be reasonable?

the thing is ALOT of people who fill in forms DO miss things by accident / because they are thick. They don't just receive forms from intelligent people.

We had CRB checks done for committee members and the mistakes on the forms were awful!

Also the people sitting at the other end are not allowed to use their judgement about whether a form is accurate.

If we were talking about library card application I would say it wasn't important and it is silly but for the CRB check it is vital that the information is correct.

Yes obviously if the forms are crap then they need to check.

But the people on here have given full information and proof and been called liars.

That is different surely?

this is why I use Dr for official stuff. I detest people trying to call me Mrs.

I agree - I worked very hard for that title, why should some admin bod decide that I'm best defined by who I'm married to?