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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that the CRB check is done by sexist tosspots?

120 replies

solidgoldbullet4myvalentine · 05/02/2009 13:25

Grr. Grr grr. Have just had an ever-so-polite call from occasional employer re my CRB check form: I use Ms rather than Miss or Mrs so they want to know if I have ever 'had another surname' - the implication being that only bitter divorced feminist hags use Ms, presumably. Does this annoy anyone else?

OP posts:
YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch · 05/02/2009 15:36

But they're not sal, they're wasting man (or woman ) hours verifying info with no reason to do so, surely there is a better use of their time (unless of course there is a reason to be suspicious of a certain name). _

chegirl · 05/02/2009 15:51

May I just my tiny and probably unreasonable rant?

I got offered a job in November and I am still waiting to start due to CRB taking so long arrrggggh. Its nowhere near finished yet.

Yes I know its important but why does it take so flippen long. I have had loads done before. Why doesnt that make a difference?

Its so urgent because from today I have no money coming in. OH is working but only part time.
I really thought I wouldve started by now.

Original poster
solidgoldbullet4myvalentine · 05/02/2009 17:27

Men also change their names these days, sometimes, when they enter into civil partnerships. WOuld that be the CRB's business? (We note you have had another surname, Mr X. Gay, are you?)

OP posts:
Pekkala · 05/02/2009 17:40

Exactly the same happened to me as the OP - and my start date at a nursery was delayed because they sat on my paperwork. The CRB poeople did not send my CRB back, and when I got my prospective employer to ring to find out the delay, was told it was because I hadn't told them my previous surname. I had declared clearly that I had never changed by surname on the form, and signed it to say all information was true and correct.

It was annoying. It is, IMO, sexist, as I had assumed mine was a one off cock-up, but that's obviously not the case.

CarryOnUpTheLiffey · 05/02/2009 18:31

Soup, I meant that the only way to ever resolve the issues dredged up by the Ms/Mrs/Miss situation would be for everybody to use Ms.

Obviously you can use whatever you like, but I prefer to use Ms, because as solid points out, a man's marital status is his own business, he never has to declare it on a form.

Also, we are never going to go backwards, ie, have a sitation where an umarried man or a young man is referred to as a Master! That's just not going to happen, adn that's a good thing. But in order to make the declarations demanded from men and demanded from women equal then all women would have to refer to themselves as Ms.

mrswoolf · 05/02/2009 18:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

morningpaper · 05/02/2009 18:52

I'ev had this problem with the CRB too - it seems to be standard procedure that they assume ANY Ms is divorced. :-/

curlygal · 05/02/2009 19:10

Not unreasonable.

You completed the form fully and signed it. Why didn;t they query any of the other facts you provided? Just previous surnames

I use Ms as my name is on the web for my job and I do not want to share my maritial status with the whole wide world

When I booked my buggy in to get fixed the woman wrote on my receipt "Mrs Curly" without asking me, yes I have a child, therefore I must be married. If only it were that simple, love

Often wish I had a PhD so that could just be Dr on everything.

tumtumtetum · 05/02/2009 19:11

I wonder where this peculiar idea about Ms meaning divorced comes from

Never in my life heard of it before today...

TheFallenMadonna · 05/02/2009 19:20

PhD brings its own problems. We get letters headed "Dear Mr Madonna and Sir/Madam"

tumtumtetum · 05/02/2009 19:45

My parents are both docs and when anyone rang up asking for dr tum they always expected a man.

Letters always came to dr and mrs as well.

I asked my mum why she didn't get annoyed, i think she just genuinely didn't mind. She would say "well I am a mrs". Think she was trying to deflect getting a feminist rant from me.

My MIL gets very upset if anyone addresses her as ms. I really don't understand why. She seems to think it is disrespectful for some reason (?).

maybe it goes back to old fashioned ideas about being married when you have children? So women of a certain generation think it implies they have had their children out of wedlock?

yama · 05/02/2009 20:08

I have never heard of 'Ms' meaning divorced either.

I use it for the same reason as others on this thread have stated - my marital status is my business.

morocco · 05/02/2009 20:15

SGB, agree completely -crappy lazy sexist thinking by crb people

it is well known. I've always been told to include my original (ie the same as it is now) surname in the changed surname box when I also put Ms on the CRB form

TheFallenMadonna · 05/02/2009 20:15

God yes. My MIL would be livid if she were ever addressed as 'Ms'. Mind you, she addresses her letters to me as Mrs DH's initial Surname

tumtumtetum · 05/02/2009 20:34

morocco do you know why they do it though?

i just don't understand.

Ms doesn't mean anything about your marital status.

Why do they assume it does? Where has that come from?

Why does the CRB think ms means divorced when they are the only people in the world who thinks it means that, and it's not what it means...

TheNinkynork · 05/02/2009 20:37

The HT of the lovely Infant School I went to was a Ms. It was on the school sign too. I asked my mum why she had that title when every other teacher was a Miss or Mrs and she said it was because, "it's nobody's business whether she's married or not". This was in 1976 and my Mum is so not a feminist but what she said really struck a chord and that's what I have always believed.

I am that people think otherwise, and now DH insists that Ms was / is the correct term for divorced women!

tumtumtetum · 05/02/2009 20:39

Grrrr.

Ninky give your DH a swift upper cut and tell him to stop spouting nonsense.

Where has this come from? Who is propogating it?

Weird.

Like me suddenly deciding that the word tomato only applies to red fruits grown in holland and insisting that is the correct definition and tomatoes were never anything else...

morocco · 05/02/2009 20:41

yep, know why they do it (well, can hazard a guess)

cos they think we are too thick to understand the question that says (paraphrase) 'did you ever have another surname'

and cos they think the only women who use Ms are women with something to hide (their divorced hubby, whose name, of course, they will have taken and then changed back to their original name). Cos of course, Miss means 'not married' and Mrs means you took your husbands name

dss used to be a lot worse at crap lazy sexist thinking. is a very paternalist organisation at heart.

tumtumtetum · 05/02/2009 20:43

Ok here's what I think.

Is it that society is so conditioned to define women by their sexual availability/attachment to a male that when a title came along which didn't give anything away, people were so uncomfortable with it that they decided that it did mean something connected to relationship to a man/sexual availability after all?

That people are so uncomfortable judging women by their own personality and achievements rather than by the relationships, that they flatly refuse to do it?

Would make sense why people also seem to think that Ms means lesbian as well...

StewieGriffinsMom · 05/02/2009 20:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Berries · 05/02/2009 20:57

Definately sexist. I go by Mrs but didn't change my name, dh did. I ticked the 'no other names' & added covering letter to this effect. Got sent back for clarification. Explained circumstances, sent copy of marriage certificate and copy of DH deed poll name change. Came back with enhanced CRB check with the comment 'refused to divulge any previous names even though uses MRS as title' - luckily the school knew the circumstances. Despite sending all the information they preferred to imply I was withholding information

tumtumtetum · 05/02/2009 21:03

fuck me berries that's appalling.

I actually don't understand how that can be.

you explained to them twice, enclosed letter first time and marriage/name change certificates second time and then they accused you of lying?

What's the matter with them? Do they live in a universe where everyone is married by 25 with 2.4 kids and the wifey always takes the DH name and any other situation is so baffling as to be a downright lie?

Truely I am appalled.

tumtumtetum · 05/02/2009 21:08

Would it be interesting to post a question on dadsnet seeing if anyone has had any random trouble, maybe they are just obtuse obstinate bastards.

Otherwise I really struggle to understand how this can be happening.

smellyeli · 05/02/2009 21:14

berries - but not totally surprised. I was phoned this week by HR at my new hospital - apparently Dr. is no longer a recognised title for a laydee and she wanted to clarify whether I was a Miss or a Mrs. When I joked that it was 'none of the CRB's business' she did say that if I 'witheld information' it would delay my approval. Obviously proper man doctors don't have this problem and are Mr. (unless qualified precociously young, Doogie Howser style)

BlameItOnTheBogey · 05/02/2009 21:25

What I love is that what was brought in to be an equality term (ms) to indicate that it wasn't anyone's business whether or not the person was married has somehow been twisted to be exactly the opposite. i.e. we don't just want to indicate whether or not you are married (miss or mrs) we now think women should also indicate if they are divorced (ms). Perhaps they should also paint themselves blue or some other such thing that denotes social outcasts.

Seriously, when did that happen? I've never heard such a ridiculous suggestion prior to reading this thread.