to think that the CRB check is done by sexist tosspots?

[solidgoldbullet4myvalentine]

Grr. Grr grr. Have just had an ever-so-polite call from occasional employer re my CRB check form: I use Ms rather than Miss or Mrs so they want to know if I have ever 'had another surname' - the implication being that only bitter divorced feminist hags use Ms, presumably. Does this annoy anyone else?

Go and fight real sexism, not this namby pamby whingey stuff.

If titles really irritate you then we should surely all use Mr so that the title does not denote sex at all. That is the only "non sexist" way.

Fimbo, I gather the form had a box for previous names so you'd have to declare them if you had married twice. This whole thing is stupid, it shouldn't matter what title you choose, it is the previous name section that should be focussed on by the CRB not the title. If the OP had stated the previous name section that she'd only ever used one name, then they are implying she's not telling the truth and that as a Ms you must be divorced and have once used your ex husband's name. That is why I think the OP was NBU and it can be taken as sexist or just plane wrong.

I also think that a system that relies on gut prejudice as the basis for 'checking up' is unlikely to be reliable.

Or maybe drop titles altogether? That woudl be my preferred solution tbh
Anyway I hardly think that indulging in an internet debate means that I am incapable of distinguishing priorities - I don't think I ever said this was the most important feminist cause, did I?

I truly think that any discrimination - however small it seems - is a bad thing and has a cumulative effect. If someone has declared on an official form that they have not been known my another name, you have to take their word for it. There's no other reason they are checking this than because she is a woman and they are implying that her marital status is an issue because she's a woman (if this is important it should be a question elsewhere on the form and be directed at men as well).

I find it incredibly patronising that someone would call you to check you hadn't made a mistake on a form simply because you're a woman. They may as well call you and say 'are you sure you haven't forgotten any criminal convictions you have, because I see you were born in [insert town with high crime rate here]?'

AND it smacks of bureaucratic delay tactics, which having worked in similar types of offices I'm pretty familiar with.

Saying you can't vote because you are a woman is sexist.
Paying you less than a man for the same job is sexist.

Politely phoning to double check you've not had another name because you're using "Ms" and a good proportion of "Ms" users have had another name is just checking something that looks inconsistent.

No, it wouldn't have happened on a man's application but that doesn't make it sexist. Men don't have to have breast exams either but that doesn't make them sexist.

is MS officially for divorced women? I use it all the time in my work and for all sorts of things and I am not divorced! I am married but prefer to be called Ms.

YANBU, since you had answered that question on another part of the form.

personally I'd rather they double checked things like this than let people slip through the net

I know its a pain in the @ss as I need CRBs for work but as I work for 2 companies I have to get 2 separate CRBs and they can take ages, but from a service user's point of view, better safe than sorry

really, does it put you out THAT MUCH to just answer their question?

Soupdragon, you are missing the point. The sexist thing about this whole business is the assumption that it is not possible for a woman to have a courtesy title that does not give away her marital status.
Ms is a title adopted by women who do not wish their marital status to be seen as a primary facet of their identity. It is absurd that it should be subverted as some sort of indicator of divorcee status.
Furthermore, as has been clearly stated on this thread more than once, the question of previous surnames is thoroughly dealt with on the form itself.
It is blatantly sexist to assume that a woman is more likely than a man to 'forget' to declare previous surnames.

Ringing up to check because your reported birth date doesn't match your age is checking for inconsistencies.

Ringing up because you find evidence that someone has been known by another name is checking for inconsistencies.

I would be interested to know exactly what proportion of women who use 'ms' have been known by another name, but I still don't think it is relevant in this case. The OP has basically, however politely, been questioned on her competence to tell the truth on a form because she is a woman. It has delayed her application and probably affected her professionally (however slightly), because she is a woman.

A breast exam is a completely different thing. I wouldn't suggest women should attend for a testicular check. Those are physiological differences.

Sal, it put me out that much to have my entire CRB check held up for several weeks because the CRB were waiting for non-existent "information". If I hadn't phoned them to chase it up they would have sat on it for ever without letting me know that they were doing so.

This is such a load of bollocks.

The whole point of Ms was so that we could have "Mr" and "Ms" and that would be it.

Why should your marital status be relevent? Maybe we should all have a number after our names to say how many children we have?

Can we go back to calling young men "master"?

FWIW I used Ms all the time when I was between about 18 and 25. However, people insisted on changing it to miss all the time for some reason.

So I went back to Miss and now I am a Mrs.

I have never ever before in my entire life heard of Ms being for women who are divorced. I thought it was for people who believed that whether they had a man at home or not was none of anyone's business.

If they rushed them through without double checking any doubts (however small) they would be less effective (and they are already not perfect)

Mine always get held up because I moved address a lot due to renting

At least they are checking thoroughly

A pain for me but good for the vulnerable people that they are used to protect

p.s. all the people I know who use Ms HAVE had previous surnames

It's irritating and sexist because it's a reminder that women's 'marital status' is allegedly other people's business in a way that men's is not.

"It's irritating and sexist because it's a reminder that women's 'marital status' is allegedly other people's business in a way that men's is not."

It is the CRB's business! Men dont often tend to change their name on marraige so their marital status is not of as much interest to the CRB as a womans is

Really, I do wonder why we need to have titles for official use. I have a first, middle and surname and I don't see that I need to supplement them with a title too, apart from as a courtesy when talking to someone.

Sal no-one I knew called Ms had previous surnames. We were all young and never marries idealistic types, ie thinking that it would be great if women didn't need to declare their attachment to a man the whole time.

Unfortunately it turned out that being a Ms people made even more random and bizarre judgements about you. Like you must be gay

If an employer refused to put Ms on an ID badge, only putting Mrs or Miss, that would be unnecessary and sexist

The CRB double checking the slightest doubt is just reassuring IMO

Sal you are wrong. The only thing that is of interest to the CRB is what names you have been known by. As long as you answer that question, your marital status is entirely irrelevant

That feels better.

But the point, Sal, is that having stated that you have not had any previous surnames, there is no reason for them to doubt it. It is frustrating.

I used Ms as a young adult. I never thought it had any links to divorce.

And if there is a box which someone has ticked saying "I have no other surnames" then that pretty much covers it, surely?

And, um, men do change their names as well. i know two men who have taken their wives names.

It is sexist.

so they double checked! I've had things I clearly stated on my forms double checked!

In other contexts I agree

But in the context of the CRB its different and so much better safe than sorry.

Honestly I am amazed that more people aren't glad that the CRB are making 100% sure beyond any doubt that they are checking correctly considering the types of vulnerable people who people who are required to have a CRB work with

Ms is ambiguous and people who use it like it that way. It gives no indication as to whether the Surname it goes with is a maiden name or married name.

So why not ring all the men - Mr is also extremely ambiguous.

Just thought - a lot of people double-barrell these days - the men do it as well I guess? So lots of men changing name on marriage?

If they want to double check everyone they should take the question about previous surnames off and just ring everyone and ask them.

Or, since statistically men are more likely to have a criminal record, they could ring all men and check that they haven't forgotten to declare one, since they put 'Mr' on their form.

Clearly that's ridiculous but only marginally more so than assuming someone's lied/ made a mistake on a form because they're a woman.