Racist or not?

[claw3]

At our local train station at the weekend with ds 12, he was looking at news stand, while i was getting train tickets.

Anyhow at news stand there was a section which had black magazines ie black hair, black beauty, black music etc, etc. Ds asked me why do black people have their own mags and would it be racist if white people had their own magazines ie white hair, white beauty etc etc.

Your thoughts, would it??

So what would you call them?

Shona - Someone has already asked that one, for example i would call Vogue, Vogue, not white Vogue. Im sure the people who name these mags have imaginations.

I can see this is something that people feel strongly about (as they have every right to) but i read the opening post as a question on peoples thoughts on what you would say to your child. It is a very intelligent question and i may be missing the point entirely (it is very possible)but i cant see why some people are getting quite agressive in their opinions. I'm not sure what i would say to a child who had asked that, i'm sure there is no 'right' answer. As for the comment on any fashion magazine being just a 'white' magazine, i thought that it was fairly mixed with models of all different races and colour skin. Or am i being very naive?

Agree with Wilf

And I am suspicious of the OP - why did you ask this (loaded) question and what are your thoughts on the matter?

Hoochie - So anything aimed at 'white' readers, should be named white whatever then?

yes Wilfs post summed up what I was trying (badly) to say - I'm on the side that says you still have to allow each cultural group to maintain it's own identity at the same time as creating "equality" in the day to day course of life

Quattro - I was interested in what other people thought. I have stated my thoughts throughout the thread.

I'm lost now - you don't mind there being magazines catering to specific groups eg black people but you object to them being called "Black ....".

Or do you think that magazines should all have to cater for every minority group of any type and if anyone wants to see more of the specific thing that interests them, that they can;t because it might interfere with a multiculutral society?

Sorry - am confused about what it is you object to.

I don't understand why you have an issue with the magazines name, but not there existance? Surely names don't really matter? I don't think that most 'white' magazines intend to be white, but they do really mainly cater for a white audience.
I personally don't like the 'melting pot' thing. Better to celebrate difference than pretend difference doesn't exist.

Hmm...

Black hair products are not included in advertising on mainstream tv in the UK. Hence the need for 'Black hair' magazines, so that we know where to get products,what new products have come out, etc. They also carry adverts for caucasian hair products.

Never heard or read any other magazines with 'Black' in the title. AFAIK, 'Black' music is know as 'urban' in the press

As far as mainstream mags are concerned,they are exactly that, mainstream. We can all read them, but they do not, in the main, cater for Black women's skincare or hair care.

I would think that it wsa quite a simple concept to explain to a 12 year old. I have had to explain similar things to my 7 year old DS1 (mixed race) and he has understood. As someone else said earlier,I think you are over analysing this.

you don;t need mainstream press to have "White" in the title - whites are massively in the majority in this country there is an assumption that a magazione will cater to a white audience unless the title states otherwise

So you wouldn't mind if the black hair magazine was called "Scissors"

and the black beauty magazine was called "Antoinette"

and the black music magazine was called "R&B Monthly"

That's why I'm not a copywriter btw .

I think they are called different things though aren't they? Isn't there a mag called Ebony? Or is that in the US?

Friar - Obviously there are differences between white/black people and im not objecting to different hair, skin etc, etc being catered for.

Im objecting to magazines being called black whatever, the same as i would if a magazine was called white whatever.

Why do that?

They are probably called that because the publishers would never in a million years have thought that anyone would be offended by those titles. Most people do not give them a second thought. The people who are interested in them buy them, and the people who are not don't.

claw3 - All you needed to do was buy a copy of Vogue (or similar), and a copy of one of the Black hair or beauty magazines.

Sit down with your son when you get home, and read through them together. Discuss with him why he thinks there might be a reason for the black magazines existing. Count the number of black models in Vogue - both the adverts, and the makeup/hair advice sections.

If you have any black friends, ask them if you can touch their hair (they make think you are strange at this point) - maybe this will help you understand why there is a need for separate magazines with advice for black people about taking care of their hair, as I'm sure you won't find it in Vogue.

I'd really be interested to know what you and your son found out if you did this.

what did you say to your son?

Becasue you don't need to say "white" the assumption based on 90% of the country being white.

Its like describing a post box as "that red post box" you wouldn;t because they are mostly read. You only need to get more specific if the post box is blue or yellow.

(thats the sound of KC's head hitting a handy brick wall)

Saadia - Would people be offended by 'White Vogue', 'White Hello' or whatever?

you're entitled to object to it, I guess-but seems like most people don't, and see it as a non-issue

i think the publishers probably just wanted to make their target audience clear when they brought out their publications-so people knew exactly where to look for their specific needs and what they were getting

i don't think there's anything wrong with that...

Norky - I can understand the need for different magazines, just not the titles.

There was an actual Black Vogue it was the first ever vogue that featured all black models. You could only buy it in Italy.

hello and vogue aren't specifically for white people are they?!

what about magazines for men? FHM, GQ-their titles' refer specifically to the male gender, is that wrong too? (am not making any quality judgements re their content btw....that's a whole other issue)

"The Hair Magazine for people who aren't necessarily of the majority race but we can't tell you who, you'll have to flick through before working out whether its the one you want"?

Would have to be pretty small font though.

Catissleepy - Thats interesting how many people see it as a non issue.

I wonder how many people would object to 'White Pride' 'White Hello' or whatever??