Racist or not?

[claw3]

At our local train station at the weekend with ds 12, he was looking at news stand, while i was getting train tickets.

Anyhow at news stand there was a section which had black magazines ie black hair, black beauty, black music etc, etc. Ds asked me why do black people have their own mags and would it be racist if white people had their own magazines ie white hair, white beauty etc etc.

Your thoughts, would it??

In a a once colonial power such as the UK who built its riches on slavery, it is politically sensitive. Its necessary while discrimination is within living memory, which it still is.

Its kind of accepted that due to human weakness and ego, for real paradjum shifts to occur, the previous 'hegamony' must die out, or else they will always resent being ousted. After a certain amount of time and memory of white abuses of black people and others have faded beyond one or two generations - when people learn about such discrimaination on school and can't get their heads around it - then the prefix 'white' won't have so many negative connotations.

But other than that, in an anglo-saxon country, regardless of diversity, its unnecessary to use the prefix anyway - until they become a minority. If they do. But we'll all be toffee coloured by then anyway

Marslady - Apologises if i have confused, I wasnt disputing the points you raised. Just using these as examples.

I have been disputing using white as a word being racist by default regardless of contents.

Where can I join the hegamonic paradjum by the way?

Actually Claw monkeytrousers wasnt the first person to make that point:

"By FriarKewcumber on Mon 26-Jan-09 16:01:12
Quite Wilf - "white" in the context of descibing something as White -white power, white club has become associated with "white supremacist" so like it or not the descriptor "white" is now tainted with that brush in a way that "black" isn't."

I beleive others made the same point.

But that was back when I thought we were having the discussion you claimed to want.

(fucking off again)

Friar - Yes you agreed with Wilf that white people are racist by default and that black people cant be racist by default. Hence the dispute.

I doubt it will penetrate but we didn't actually say white people are racist by default. We said that the use of the term 'white' in the way you were suggesting can be seen as racist in particular contexts (as others have said white in a simply descriptive way is not).

I do believe - as I said - non-white people can easily have prejudicial beliefs and indeed actions. But to label them as racism is nonsensical because of a. the history, as discussed, and b. the social context, also as discussed.

But quite why we're bothering I have no idea since you seem to not be taking any of it in. Perhaps you don't want to? Or can't?

Monkeytrousers - Perhaps thats my problem im trying to hurry things along, that take time.

no [grits teeth} I was agreeing with wilf's comment

"A magazine named 'white' this that or the other, would be seen as racist towards black people. Not whites. It would be seen as an inappropriate celebration of whiteness in a social context in which white is the dominant culture."

in fact I categorically stated on at least two occasions that I beleive it is possible for black people to be racist.

am fucking to fuck off again before I descend to calling OP a *** because that would be very unkind and inflammatory.

Wilf - It helps if you take your head out of your arse when you talk to other people. Take a leaf out of Monkeytrousers book.

At no point, have i been rude or disrespect to anyone (other than Friar, when i replied oh fuck off you snob, after listening to so many insults and personal comments from others, mistaking her learn to spell and pointless people comments at being directed at me)

There is an old Persian saying:

When a wise man and a foolish man argue, the greater fault lies with the wise man.

I'm leaving this thread now because it is clear that Claws prefers to remain ignorant.

claw you have the ability to repeat back to a poster their views in a completely inaccurate way which makes my eyeballs bleed.

I didn't take exception to you telling me to fuck off when you misunderstood my "spelling" post - I did take great exception when I corrected you that you in effect called me a liar. Then when I retreated from the thread as a result, you said I needed to toughen up. But Wilf (and various others including me) trying to point out that you are not really paying any attention to what she says (fairly politely in my view) gets told to take her head out of her arse? Can you spot the double standard there?

thank you Spokette - a timely reminder.

Look, I'm a hater of political correctness myself. But I don't think labelling stuff like hair mags specifically for people with afro hair 'Black hairdressing monthly' while not calling Vogue 'White Vogue' is a sign of some terrible hypocrasy. There really are bigger fish to fry.

Its maybe what you would call making a mountain out of a molehill. It's a non issue. IMHO. Politically anyway. It's vitally important when it comes to hair!

And please don't involve me in any slagging matches.

Whitegate continues >

Well said Spokette I have never heard of that expression before but I will now keep that in mind.

Claw3 as fantastic as this has been I am out of this thread now as well you quite clearly not excepting our answers and we are going round and round and round and round and round in circles

Peace love and hair grease I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

Friar - You agreed that white in a title would be racist, did you not?

You agreed that the actions of a minority cant be racist by default, then only to say that black people can be racist?

All very conflicting.

Thank you to Monkeytrousers and a few others, much appreciated

Monkeytrousers as i said to Marslady I wasnt disputing those points (name of mags, the need for them etc). Just using these as examples.

I have been disputing using white as a word being racist by default regardless of contents. But you have explained your reasoning behind it and as i said i can see that i have been guilty of trying to hurry things along, that are going to take time.

Circles springs to mind!

Agree that the word "white" has been hijacked in much the same way that the English flag/union jack flags have. "Caucasian Hair" actually sounds okay to me but willing to accept that I am in a minority

Many years ago I worked for a horrible publishing company. My job was to pretend to be from an advertising agency and to phone up other magazines and ask for a press pack under the pretext of having a client who wished to buy some advertising space from them. The press packs generally consisted of some blurb including circulation and demographic stats and around three copies of the mag in question, which I would pass to the sales team who would then call the companies who had advertised therein and try to steal their business. I shared my broom cupboard office with a friendly Aussie gentleman who had decorated his side of our tiny space with pictures of bikini-clad ladies, and to whom it was a perpetual disappointment that I had not similarly put up photos of nubile young men. He left a few weeks after I started in the job, but his parting shot was to phone up a magazine from the directory we had and request a press pack for me - can't remember what the title was exactly, but it was something like Blush and was described in the directory along the lines of "featuring photographs of attractive young men in their prime". He then left. When the magazines turned up, they were, clearly (and very much not as he intended) gay porn My point (for anyone who's read this far) is that, had the magazine been called something like "Young Gay Stiffies", it would have saved me some professional embarrassment (though it did make my day at work much more entertaining than usual, and I picked up some good blowjob tips ).

Oh my goodness!

There is a solution ? well kind of.

Hairdressers usually differentiate themselves into European and Afro Hair! So maybe black hair mags should be called afro hair mags.

The description European hair is easier to describe and group. However, there'll be an issue around the number of different hair textures among black folk. What kind of hair would be included in an Afro Hair Magazine?

I know dark skinned black people with straight hair and mixed raced people with afro hair!

Sigh ? the debate continues?.

Oops - what about Asian hair. OK Caucasian hair sounds good.

But not all black hair mags deal with just afro hair alot of it has weave in it

True - and extensions which is sported by the Victoria Beckham's as well as the Beyonce's.

Extensions and pieces use to be a black thing until it became used by white women, I guess.

A white man just walked passed my desk with Afro hair - I'm not kidding!

" By Anglepoise on Tue 27-Jan-09 15:30:41
....much the same way that the English flag/union jack flags have. ...."

Union Flag (NOT Jack)

as you were...

Depends on the weave though a white person wouldn't have the same weave put in as a black person.

LOL I have seen white people with afros as well My god daughter is mixed race but very light and people would assume she was white unless they knew her parents she has a light brown afro its beyond cute her sister has the very straight hair but is darker.

Huh? I just googled Union Jack and the English flag came up.

I then googled union flag and this came up:

Union Flag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia10 Jun 2008 ... The Union Flag, also popularly known as the Union Jack, is the national flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. ...