Racist or not?

[claw3]

At our local train station at the weekend with ds 12, he was looking at news stand, while i was getting train tickets.

Anyhow at news stand there was a section which had black magazines ie black hair, black beauty, black music etc, etc. Ds asked me why do black people have their own mags and would it be racist if white people had their own magazines ie white hair, white beauty etc etc.

Your thoughts, would it??

People are still people regardless of colour, having different magazines doesn't change that surely? Black music magazines will be brought by black and white people. Eminem does 'black' music but is white.

I am a firm believer that all people are equal and shoudl be treated as such. but a magazine that is specifically aimed at a particular demographic isn't racist.
thats like saying "she" magazine is sexist as it is entitled to attract women only.

I also think that magazines like Men's Health are sexist.

I know thousands of women who want to build enormous pecs and squat 130kg in their own living rooms and they just can't because these mags marginalise them.

It's a crying shame, it really is.

LOL

claw3, it's great that you are teaching your ds that people are all equal regardless of colour, which is why all people should have access to information relevant to them and all people should see themselves represented in the media.

Niche magazines are there to fill a gap in the market and they make commercial sense.

As an Asian, when I was getting married, a mainstream bridal mag would have been useless to me.

I would be interested to see what a magazine aimed just at whites looked like.

"My point being my ds has been brought up to believe that people are people regardless of colour"

Yes of course, but people are all different and there's nothing wrong with recognising that. Treating people differently because of those differences is racist.
The magazines aren't exclusive are they? I could, as a white person, buy one of the magazines aimed at black or Asian women if I wanted to.

well said FKC

Claw2 what would the point in someone buying the mag if its not suited to the skin tone or hair KMT. You have got issues if you think this is racial.

This isnt about beauty tips or hair, as i stated previous, there are lots of mags entitled 'black' whatever. Its about labelling things as 'black' or 'white' and encouraging people to unite on the basis of skin colour. Segregrating people into groups based on skin colour. I thought we were way past all that.

Friar - Im not trying to start a oh its ok for them to racist, but not us, quite the opposite.

so then how would you like themt o describe a magazine that is aimed at afro hair?

seriously. it is not racist to recognise difference, it is racist to react to that difference in a negative way.

If your ds is asking these questions I think it would be helpful for you to read and think about some of the responses you have on this thread. As a 12yr old he should be able to understand the commercial and social reasons for these magazine and that they are not there just to divide people along racial lines.

I do think that in the quest to be PC and show that we're all the same (which of course we are) we run the risk of "losing" some of the things which make us different from each other, none of which has to be negative, more of "celebrating" our differences rather than trying to pretend that we're all exactly the same

Mama - As its already been stated Vogue for example is obviously aimed at 'white' people, but its not called white Vogue.

why do you CARE?

now

No - and "In The Night Garden" is not called "Children's In The Night Garden."

So, broadening it out a bit, if there was a magazine aimed at deaf people with the word deaf in the title, would that be considered discriminatory against able bodied people? I would say no and the same reasoning would apply to magazines aimed at black people with the word 'black' in the title - they would be aimed at minority groups and are making that clear in the title - anyone can buy them but they can't then complain that it was full of articles for deaf or black people because it is clear that this would be the content from the title.

Vogue is aimed at the sort of people who are interested in the sort of things that Vogue writes about, so not me (white) but my fashionable friend (black) yes.

A magazine about black hair is aimed at people who are interested in afro hair. So, again, not me but my hairdresser (white, but with a special interest in afro hair) yes.

As has been said previously, nothing is stopping you buying any magazine you want, whatever your colour. Your interests will determine whether you find a particular publication relevant to you or not.

Mainstream magazines reflect mainstream Western European/North American culture and so tend not to contain much that is specifically relevant to those from other cultures. Hence the niche publications where there is enough demand to make them economically viable. It's not magazine apartheid!

Mystery - Because i really dont see why there is a need to label anything as black or white.

This does nothing to help bring communities together, nothing to relieve racial tension. Encouraging minority groups to unite and stick together does nothing for the community. I have to live in the community.

If we want a multi cultural melting pot we need to bring communities together.

yes but you also do't want to get to the stage where you have just "one" big community, imo it's just as important to help minority groups retain their "identity" as it is to intergrate everyone into one big melting pot.

oh my god, you're right!

I'll make sure my daughter stops buying and reading Afro hair care products and magazines immediately, in the interests of 'relieving racial tension'

and maybe start more threads like this?

Look. A bit of background (or Sociology 101). Racism is not just stereotyping or prejudice, It is prejudice with power. Power has a history; so racism and the social divisions between black and white have a history.

Whiteness has accumulated its own power over centuries of rich white people oppressing people of colour. Most white people today however - as individuals - do not act in a racist way (at least not consciously).

There is a MAHOOSIVE amount of academic and political debate about whether it is better to deal with inequality by creating separate enclaves which celebrate particular cultures or groups or whether to treat everyone as equal under some universal code of human rights.

The jury is still out: if you treat everyone as equal you risk 'misrecognising' their particularity; if you recognise difference, you risk charges of prejudice.

So I come down to this conclusion myself: it is not impossible for a non-white person to be racist at all; but when you factor in the centuries of racism by individual whites and white institutions towards ethnic minorities in this country and ethnicities overseas, it is much easier to understand why minority or oppressed cultures want separate spaces sometimes.

But I suspect you don't really want to hear this answer somehow.

Sorry if I am misunderstanding things but it sounds as though you are being deliberately obtuse.

Minority mags are IMO contributing TO racial equality. There is an inequality in society which they are correcting.

I think if we want a multicultural melting pot then we need it to be multicultural, not "we all do/like/need the same things"

I don't magazines catering to the needs of black/asian skin/hair (which as many people have pointed out are different to white skin and haircare needs) are a great source of racial tension are they? or am I missing something?

they cater to a specific need in the market, like many other magazines. If mainstream mags aren't fulfilling those needs, something has to fill the gap, right?

Are these any different to the "Scottish" mags we get up here? Not sure of specific titles, but you get Scottish Bride, Scottish Homes etc etc etc.

Are these divisive and we should just all by British mags? Or are they fulfilling a niche market for mags that are wholly, rather than partially, relevant to the Scottish market?

Saadia - Im not saying there should NOT be magazines aimed at black people, im saying is there really any need for them to be called 'black' whatever. The magazines aimed at 'white' people are not called 'white' whatever.