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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that using foreign phrases in books, etc, is a bit unnecessary and pretentious?

77 replies

mm22bys · 13/01/2009 07:28

It really bugs me when I'm reading a book, or even the odd MN thread!, and someone feels it's necessary to through in a foreign phrase or 10. I can get by with a bit of French, but everything else (for example Latin) goes over my head. I am sure I'm not the only one!

It just seems really pretentious and unnecessary to me, especially since a lot of people can't even speak / write English properly.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Original poster
mm22bys · 13/01/2009 07:29

Yep, I can't speak / write English properly myself! Of course it should read "throw in a foreign phrase"!

OP posts:
Picante · 13/01/2009 07:29

You do know that etc is Latin don't you?

Original poster
mm22bys · 13/01/2009 07:33

I do! Missed that one actually, I did change "for example" from "eg" because I knew if I inadvertently used it it would be picked up!

OP posts:
SheikYerbouti · 13/01/2009 07:56

Usted está siendo desrazonable

choosyfloosy · 13/01/2009 08:02

Yes and no.

I don't think it's unreasonable to use whatever language it takes to get your meaning across, and sometimes other languages do it better than English, which is why the phrases have a currency in English-speaking circles I suppose.

However, coming from a family where French or at least Franglais, Latin and Spanish tags are used a lot, 90% of the time they are used to avoid emotional connection, to signal group membership (rather like Internet abbreviations IMO) or to make a joke, and aren't really that necessary.

However, I don't see why other people's rubbish English would be an excuse for not using phrases you do understand yourself. Why shouldn't they go and look something up and actually learn something?

cory · 13/01/2009 09:08

It depends on the book; in a work of fiction, if the character you are portraying would speak in that way then that's how you have to portray them. In a fact book, sometimes the technical terms you need to explain properly are foreign. Some of the slang teenagers use is foreign in origin, and some of it is difficult for adults to understand, but if your main character is a teen you need to make them speak using their language the way they do.

And it's a question of where you'd draw the line. Some people will struggle with e.g., there may even be some who have a problem with etc. Languages continually change by incorporating foreign words. For most people etc. is English, but it's gone through a gradual acclimitisation process. If we had to speak proper unadulterated English, we would be totally incomprehensible.

SheherazadetheGoat · 13/01/2009 09:10

enshala

Milliways · 13/01/2009 09:11

I wish my daughter would speak ENglish to me

She is doing language A levels and will be doing Languages at Uni next year, so is ALWAYS speaking & even writing notes to us in French or German.

TeenyTinyToria · 13/01/2009 09:14

Much of English stems from Latin anyway, so I don't see the problem. If everything was written to appeal to those with a Sun reading age, literature would be dead. If you come across words or phrases you don't know, look them up in a dictionary and expand your vocabulary. I quite enjoy doing that. YABU.

Tortington · 13/01/2009 09:18

its about exclusivity.

education - level, where you went to university - whether that university was russel group

Job - are you a highfyler or married to one.

latin - an indicator of the level of education

Food ( this goes on a lot on MN) - i read a thread about simply stuffing peppers this morning - and thought, jesus...

clothes - where to shop, what lables to buy and knowing the hierarchy of the lables.

Tortington · 13/01/2009 09:19

it signals you out as not being a plebian - was my point

VintageGardenia · 13/01/2009 09:23

Sorry just to lower the tone I read that as the hierarchy of the labias but I did have very little sleep last night.

Cies · 13/01/2009 09:27

I agree it depends where you draw the line. And on the intention of the user - are they trying to freeze you out by using a foreign language, or are they using it for effect (comic, descriptive etc.).

As an Brit in Spain I do find that sometimes there is no translation for what I want to say, and so mix languages as I see fit. But I would hate people to think I was trying to exclude them.

Jux · 13/01/2009 09:31

There's nothing wrong with learning something new.

BonsoirAnna · 13/01/2009 09:32

I agree with Custardo that using foreign phrases may be about signalling (social) status. But it may also just be about practicalities, depending on the context in which you live. When you function on a daily basis in a bilingual family/society/school, you tend to repeat phrases in the language in which they originally were heard, for example, rather than translating them.

Nekabu · 13/01/2009 09:58

If you don't know what something means, look it up. Two seconds on Google or dictionary.com and you'll know what it meant and will have learnt something. Otherwise it'll get to 'People shouldn't use long words because I don't know what they mean.' I don't know what some foreign phrases mean either but I look them up and learn; my ignorance should not be the yardstick by which writing is measured!

Education to a fairly good level is free. Libraries are free. The internet is very cheap. The resources are there for those who wish to use them.

Nekabu · 13/01/2009 10:02

p.s., So I meant it wasn't about exclusivity as anyone can do it should they wish.

Original poster
mm22bys · 13/01/2009 10:05

Normally I can figure it out by the context, but when there is an equivalent commonly used phrase in English, why not make it simple for everybody and just use the English? I think some people do like to show they have a "high level" of education, but even lawyers are being encouraged to give away some their latin phrases.

OP posts:
Original poster
mm22bys · 13/01/2009 10:11

This is why:

quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur

OP posts:
ErnestTheBavarian · 13/01/2009 10:13

hmm, I wrote a reply to someone earlier and said 'en route to somewhere' OK, it was about driving in France, it came nautrally to me. I certainly didn't use to to be pretentious or to freeze anybody out. For me, it was the best word/phrase for the ciircumstance.

Different languages add foreign words all the time, as has already been said. In Germany, France, Switzerland, there are loads of English words. It's become a normal part of the langugae.

I remember when learning French coming across people who were opposed to foreign words and refused to use eg 'le weekend', 'le walkman' etc. tbh I thought they seemed a bit ridiculous. Oder?

Original poster
mm22bys · 13/01/2009 10:13

Our school motto was actually "nil sine labore", no sign of work....

(not really of course )

OP posts:
SheikYerbouti · 13/01/2009 10:14

Rofl at VG

Obv my labia are supérieur

(I don;t really know FGrench, but Babel Fish does. I do have Spanish A Level, and I got an A, but that was 18276132 years ago, so all I remember is how to order a beer and una hamburgesa por favor. I think this probably singles me out as a pleb)

Lancelottie · 13/01/2009 10:14

Errm,
does that work out as
'Anyfink wot's said in Latin sounds posher, innit'?

DaddyJ · 13/01/2009 10:14

NO, I love it! Keep up the profoundness!

I have learnt a number of new English phrases on MN
e.g. forsooth, perspicacious, and I am equally happy
to pick up useful foreign phrases.

NO to dumbing down.

Nekabu · 13/01/2009 10:15

How about when it's quicker, more succinct and means what you want to say. For example, why write 'and others/and so forth/and others' when you could just put 'etc.'? Or 'whatever will be is fated to be so.' rather than 'que sera, sera.'? Or 'for example' instead of 'e.g.'? I think people just use the most appropriate words for the meaning!