Too think this woman has gone a little OTT?

[Knakard]

Bit of background, ds is 12 months and has just started a new nusery this week he goes 2 days.

He has been going to nusery for about 3 months in a lovely little local one which we put him in as an interim thing as hte waiting list for the one we really wanted was massive.

He has always got on well at nursery and settled in really quickly, the only issue there has ever been is that he does bite from time to time when he is teething. He used to do it at home occasionally and we always said no and ignore him for a moment or two and he got alot better and hasnt bitten at home for a good few months.

They also got the hang at his nursery of knowing when he was about to bite and saying no which stopped him. Now we told the new urery all of this before he started and they were quite relaxed about it and said yeah we get biters all the time etc. quite normal at that age.

When i picked him up after his 2nd day yesterday the staff told me they had had a problem with him biting and that he had done it a few times, they said it was good that he understood no and that he always stopped if they managed to catch him before he did it. talked to they about how we managed it at home and said he hadnt done it for a long time maybe he was a little over whelmed with a new nursery with lots more in his group and he is the youngest by about 2/3months so maybe it was all a bit much. They agree with all of this and said they would just keep a closer eye on him.

Anyway this morning i have had a call from his key worker very upset. She said the little girl he bit (they never told us yesterday it was a child)s mother was fuming! She was on the phone to this woman at home all evening with the woman just going nuts, saying things like "well my children are brought up to share" and "we dont need children like that a this nursery" (quite well to do area). She has basically said she will not have her child in at the same time as my little boy. The Nurse said she explained to her this put everyone in a very difficult postition and said she tried to explain to this woman she was going a little OTT.

So i am going in for a chat with keyworker on Monday but what do i do? A child of 12 months dosent bite maliciously FFS! And this silly womans specific comments have really bloody riled me! i Can understand her being upset but what does she expect us to do!!!

Ok have just seen the other biting thread in aibu some maybe i about to get flamed here! but in my defence is i had seen him do it of course i would apologise!

I think biting is a phase that most children go through at one stage or another. I always observed that as children learned to talk and articulate their feelings and desires, the biting waned. To suggest that a child, particularly one that is only a year old, is moved or banned from nursery because he has bitten another child is not just unreasonable, but utterly ridiculous!
If I were the OP, I would be seriously considering other options as the staff at this nursery sound immature, unprofessional and ill-equipped to deal with what should be a routine part of childcare.

Have posted on your other thread but just wanted to say to blondie...

My DS2 is 12 months old. He has become a bit of a biter at home although not bitten anyone at nursery and never broken skin. He and his twin sister were both bitten by the same child in the space of half an hour at nursery when they were 7 months old. Whilst I was distraught (both had skin broken and you can still see a small scar on DS2's leg 5 months later) I would never have blamed the other child or it's parents (unless it was a 4 year old or similar age).

DS2 is always told "no" when he bites at home and is removed from situation and put at other end of room. Honestly 12 months is not old enough to really understand. Yes it is old enough to be told no, but not to stop doing it straight away. They are teething endlessly at this age...

i don't know, but i do know that the boy who started biting my dd at 12mo, turned to actually hitting her more than a few times when they were slightly older, once with a fire truck that ended up needing hospital treatment. he was eventually removed from the nursery as he just turned out to be a bully. i'm not saying your ds is going to turn out to be a bully, but at 12mo he must bite for a reason and it needs to be sorted out.

i'm coming from the side of a parent who probably didn't kick up enough fuss at the time.

and being shoved is not the same as having someone sink their teeth in you.

it's like the kids who say bad words, then your kid says it cause thay heard it in nursery. would you not have a word if your ds came home cursing?? all kids have their 'things' but biting inflicts physical pain on another.

Thanks for all comments im off to work now ill check again tomorrow.

Most 12 month olds bite for no more reason than they are teething, or because they are exploring a new world of sensation - seeing how things feel. Some may do it as an instinctive (no forethought) defence mechanism if another child inavdes their space. At that age it is NOT premeditated, nor done to cause pain. At that age, they have very little or no concept of how their actions can upset, distress or cause pain to others.

That said .... of course they must be deterred from doing so. That is how children eventually learn and come to understand that some things are wrong - through repeated "nos" and age appropriate discipline.

The OP understands this and is sorting it out. It won't happen overnight, but it is also extremely unlikely that this behaviour will persist. My daughter grew out of it within months, as do most kids but you have to accept that it will potentially take longer for very young children - a baby in this case - to stop doing it as their intellectual development is that bit less mature - obviously.

The few children who turn out to be bullies are likely to have parents who can't be bothered to reinforce the no message and no-one would disgaree that is the wrong approach. In some cases, bullies will also be bullied themselves, maybe by older siblings at home. Again, no one would dispute that the parents in those cases are at fault for not dealing with this sort of behaviour.

I don't know why you're banging on about this. Have you not read what Kankard has written ? ..... she is doing all she can to stop her son biting, she is NOT ignoring it.

Knackard: You have my sympathy. I have been in the position of the other mother before and trusted the nursery to resolve it. Doesn't she have confidence in their ability?

FFS! It was just one child, one bite. If the nursery exclude your DC for this, they really will be out of business in no time.

Tell the other mother you had warned the nursery but also that you had been dealing with it EFFECTIVELY and it seems to be just a lapse. Ask her exactly what she would do if it were her child.

ALSO point out to both that the children are just as likely to end up best of friends next week.

But be prepared for the other child to retaliate if it happens again - they soon learn not to stand for it. My own DD hit back hard in the end. (And yes, I did discipline her for it).

catsmother, i take it you are referring to me as 'banging on'.

i have read what kankard has written and gave my opinion and answer her question.

if you do not understand and are unable to accept that people have different opinions then you shouldn't come on to threads which are asking for opinions.

plus my opinion is that if a 12mo is still biting after being told it's wrong, in whatever manner, a few times, the op is not doing everything she can.

With the best will in the world it takes a hell of a lot of "no's" before a message sinks though to my ds. You can't just say no a couple of times to a 1 yesr old and expect them to be perfectly behaved forevermore.

Biting is difficult we all know that, whether your charge is the biter or the bitee. The fact is it happens and the nursery should have a policy of no names.

No I wouldn't be chuffed if my ds was bitten
but I would also respect the ability of my nursery to deal with it.

So no, I do not think the OP is BU. I think the other mother is and the nursery need to get a grip.

haven't read all posts, but as a mum of a child that has been bitten quite badly, and of a child who has been a biter, i think this woman is overreacting! some people are so precious about their kids. Accidents happen as do intentional behaviour, but they are kids, not grown adults. I personally wouldn't move my child but would maybe step up the discipline at home regarding the biting, and work with the nursery. Hope u get things sorted! I know how embarassing it can be!

Blondie - yes, I was referring to you.

If, as you say, you have read her threads, then why do you "not understand" she is doing all she can to stop this ?? She is far from complacent.

And yes, I do strangely enough, also understand that people have different opinions (but funny how your seems to be in the minority isn't it, indicating, wouldn't you think, that maybe, just maybe, you are being a tad unrealistic and harsh here ?)

As it is your "opinion" that she "is not doing everything she can", perhaps you could suggest to her what she "should" be doing instead ?? Because obviously in your "opinion" she (and 1000s of other mothers in the same situation) must be missing something very obvious (assuming they are not of course scummy, irresponsible, couldn't-care-less mothers).

If you have the 100% guaranteed magic answer to stopping babies biting (after being told not to a "few times"), please do share. You could perhaps write a book about it - I am sure it would be a best seller.

I agree that the other mother's expectations are unreasonable. I'm not sure most babies of 12m are capable of changing their behaviour as quickly as we might like. I agree that the OP is doing all she can.

I don't have any experience of nurseries but it does sound like this one is a being a bit unprofessional in giving the names of the children involved and passing on the other mother's comments- that is for them to deal with. Perhaps the other mother needs to accept that it isn't possible for nursery staff to be as vigilant as they'd like due to staff to child ratios. She might be happier if her child were with a childminder or nanny where s/he could be more closely monitored.

Blondie, you seem to have a very strange idea of how much control a 12mo has over thier actions and the effect that discipline can have at this age.
The op's child is displaying NORMAL behaviour that he will grow out of.

you need a mediator to talk to the other mum,and allay her fears,naturally she's upset

but no she cannot dictate who attends nursery and when.look thing is she has gone into mummy overdrive and just wants to protect her dd.that is understandable,just her response is disproportionate

your wee one will need observation for any cues etc that precipitate the biting eg sharing,new children etc and planned interventions to help him modify his behaviour

a support plan for the biting and how you and nursery can be consistent and plan to diminish this behaviour

Bldy hell blondie. Seriously. Do you have a 12 month old in your house at the moment? Honestly my DS2 is not old enough to know better. Thankfully he is not bad at biting yet but he is told no every single time. He does it because he is teething (he bites on corners of furniture, books etc more than people, he spends ages eating the corner of the coffee table). He is not a nasty bully in the making.

And he has been bitten far worse than he has ever bitten anyone else. And I do not blame that child, who was also only young.

back to the original subject - why did a woman phone a nursery worker at home? that shouldn't even be possible, i never knew the worker's home numbers.

AND does the girl's mum know which child bit hers? when dd was bitten, i was informed, NOT told who it was, and had nursey policy explained to me - that a worker would be 'shadowing' the biter for the next few days, and intervening (saying no, quickly taking them away) if they were about to bite.

I was actually prettylaid back about it - of course it's gonna happen & people are idiots if they think babies will never push, slap, bite etc.

i would put those points to the nursery . IT is their job to deal with this professionally - it's what you pay them for.

alos, why did the worker need to phone you in tears? it's her job to be professional & objective about this. i would ask to speak to the manager & say that excluding your child is discrination, particularly given the 'children like that' comment. the nursery worker is not dealing with this properly.

also, - why not just use the local nurery? it sounds more suited to your child, or is there a practical reason for the other one?

catsmother, i don't want to get into the slanging match you do.

if i have an opinion whether it be in the minority or not, it is still my opinion and cannot be 'wrong' or 'right', as i stated before if you don't want to respect others opinions then don't come on chat sites.

i respect the fact you think it's ok to have your child bitten and remain in an environment in fear of being bitten again.

Woah, let's take a step back a bit. No one's saying that parents should just put up with children biting their children and no one's saying that it's not reasonable to want to defend your child in that situation.

In response to the original post, I would consider that the other mother is a tad unreasonable to react like that, though I can't say as I blame her as an initial protective reaction.

Young children bite as it's a new sensation to them as well as soothing when teeth are pushing through. I can still remember DS lunging for my nose in a Hannibal Lecter stylie up until he was about 18 months old, purely because it was there and accessible. It hurt, and even though he didn't know why it wasn't a good thing to bite people's faces (sounds funny put like that!) we still had to enforce some kind of cause and consequence to it, in this case it was putting him on the floor and walking away whenever he did it and eventually he stopped doing it. Children of 12 months aren't to be expected to know the difference between right and wrong, and there's a vast difference between a 12 month old who bites because he's teething and likes the feel of soft warm flesh on his gums and a 5 year old who bites out of temper and malice.

I don't want to get into a slanging match either.

But it is ridiculous and pointless to offer an opinion as you have done which is "if a 12mo is still biting after being told it's wrong, in whatever manner, a few times, the op is not doing everything she can", without offering constructive advice to help her ......

..... which you still haven't done.

Please, please suggest to her what she's doing wrong, or what she could be doing that she hasn't already tried, bearing in mind her son is, at 12 months, a baby.

It is never "okay" for one child to bite another - I've not said that, but taking into account the age of the child concerned and the reaction of the mother, who is probably mortified (as most mothers would be), what's happened is normal, albeit undesirable. The OP isn't some terrible mother encouraging her child to be a bully (like that infamous youtube video where women were cheering their kids on in a proper fist fight) and nor does this tiny little boy have evil running through his veins.

And stop telling me not to "come on chat sites". I haven't had the arrogance to suggest the same to you. Why should I not come on chat sites because I disagree with you but apparently it's okay for you to come on chat sites even though your opinion differs to just about everyone else who's replied ?

As kickassangel said, the nursery are handling this very badly.

We are talking about a situation where a parent has an issue with something that has happened to their child while in the care of the nursery. It is up to the nursery to resolve that issue to the parent's satisfaction. This should be done confidentially and tactfully.

What has happened actually is:

A keyworker has phoned you in tears
The keyworker tells you that the mother of the other child is "fuming."
The keyworker tells you about other derogatory things the other parent has said.
The keyworker issues a veiled threat: "she says she will not have her child in at the same time as my little boy. The Nurse said she explained to her this put everyone in a very difficult postition "

Personally I would forget the meeting with the keyworker and ask to meet with the manager. This has been handled incredibly insensitively and unprofessionally.

Your DS cannot possibly be the first child they have encountered who has bitten another.

Do they always nause it up like this?

I had a very similar incident with DS when in nursery - he was going through a biting phase aged about 12-14 months. The nursery basically made it clear that they didn't really want him there. He never bit at home or bit any of the children he mixed with outside nursery, so it seemed clear to me that something was happening in nursery that he was kicking out against for attention.

The "thing" it soon transpired was that he was bored witless. The all singing all dancing facilities that we were paying over 800 quid a month for were never used by his age group.

He is now with a childminder, stimulated, happy, and has not bitten for months (I accept that he may also have grown out of it anyway).

I don't think that nursery sounds like the right place for your child.

catch a grip woman.

i gave an opinion, which since noone else has obviously told you doesn't have to be the same as everyone elses!!

i cannot offer advice to my 'ridiculous and pointless' opinion as i don't know the situation. the op says she has discouraged biting by saying no when her ds does it.

now could you please stop 'banging on' - in your own words.

oh and possibly get some help for your aggression.

blondie80 on Fri 09-Jan-09 11:08:22
"sorry kankard, but i don't think the om is bu. i know you've tried your best to stop the biting, but at the same age my dd was the victim of a biter and was physically injured (teeth marks/bruises) because of it. i don't think 12mo is too young for a child to know that they shouldn't bite, they might not understand why but know not to do it."

Blondie, I was very upset when my child was being bitten so I know how a mother feels, but I still think you're talking rubbish.

I have been around small children a lot and have a large extended family.

And I have known parents who have had this smug attitude when their child was 1, only for same child to turn into a biter or a puncher or a pincher a few months later.

As it so happens, my ds never did, but I am sure that was more to do with his temperament than with my perfect parenting.

blondie80 on Fri 09-Jan-09 11:26:13
"i don't know, but i do know that the boy who started biting my dd at 12mo, turned to actually hitting her more than a few times when they were slightly older, once with a fire truck that ended up needing hospital treatment. he was eventually removed from the nursery as he just turned out to be a bully. i'm not saying your ds is going to turn out to be a bully, but at 12mo he must bite for a reason and it needs to be sorted out."

Nonsense. I was a biter at 1, and a very gentle and protective sister to my siblings later in life. There was nothing wrong in my family background.

Ds was not a biter. I don't for a moment suppose that I am a better mother than my Mum was.

The situation, blondie, is that the OP's child bites at nursery when she is not present to control him.

You have suggested very clearly that the OP ought to be able to do something- presumably at other times, then, when she is present- which would make the 12mo to stop and remember not to bite several hours after his mum has left him at the nursery.

We are all waiting to hear what she should be doing.

If you say she should be doing something, then presumably you know that can be done by the mother (since you're blaming her, not the nursery staff). So the onus is on you to tell us what that would be.

And incidentally, yes I did allow my son to remain in an atmosphere where he was in fear of being bitten. I did everything I could to negotiate and manage the situation and support him, but nothing to lay a heavier burden on the other Mum.

He is growing up into a confident and empathetic young boy who is always understanding of other people and their limitations. I don't exactly think I've done him any lasting harm.

Blondie - you are being absolutely ridiculous.i am sure there is not one of us whose LO hasn't been bitten at one time or another but little children don't know or have the self control to not bite.at 12m he probably doesn't even know himself that he's going to do it
The point of nursery is to socialise them and get them used to mixing with others and behaving acceptably.To suggest excluding a toddler for acting like a toddler is absurd.I would question the ability of the nursery though they shouldn't be setting a precedent of pandering to parents.