to think people with older / adult children must forget what hard work toddlers are?

[PeppermintInAPearTreePatty]

...because they seem to expect a lot from my 18 mo DD.

Today we met a friend in a cafe with his 2 teenage children. After DD had eaten her lunch she started to whinge and wanted to play so I sat her on my knee and entertained her for the rest of the time, which meant I couldn't really join in the conversation with everyone else. At the end of the meal my friend told me I was spoiling DD because I played with her too much I don't know what he expected me to do, maybe ignore DD and let her have a tantrum?!

Another instance is when we visit DHs parents they always either take us out for lunch at a restaurant or cook a big formal three course meal (with wine, napkins, conversation). This is lovely lof them and I loved it pre-DD. However now DD just gets restless and whingey after 5 /10 mins, so to avoid a full blown tantrum me or DH have to take her out the room to play and end up missing our lunch Or if we're in a restaurant everyone stares and it's embarrassing. It annoys my in-laws too, as they can't understand why DD can't be MADE to sit and enjoy the meal

Another time I was trying to get DD to sleep in her buggy (we were out). She had just had a big tantrum mainly because she was very tired. A family friend kept sticking her head into the buggy and talking to DD so started crying again. ARGH!

All these people have children of their own (now teenagers / grown-up), am I being unreasonable to expect them to remember what toddlers are like? Or have they forgotten? Or should I expect more from my 18 mo?

I remeber a holiday when the kids were todlers and we took my parents as well.
My Mother totally overexpected and still goes on about those mealtimes six years later.
The clanging cutlary, the dropped salt pots, the dive bombing from highchairs

I think if your child sits well during the whole meal you should be well pleased and can't really expect them to sit for much longer.
That said,our parents DID take us out for meals when we were young and they said we behaved really well. I have asked my Mum how they got us to do thius and her reply is simply that we had to. I'm still not sure how.

I agree, it's dependent on the child. The thought of dd sitting through a three course meal horrifies me. However, I try to remember her limits and generally she's ok! But believe me Patty, your dd sounds completely normal to me!

I haven't forgotten. My youngest in nearly 6 now. But thankfully most of my friends hve had children and are child-friendly and understand the hassles. I don't see I will ever forget. I hope not.

My dad did book a table at a very smart hotel for a silver service meal for my DB's 40th. DB had a 3yr old and DS#1 was 18m But no-one batted an eyelid when the boys weren't quiet.

However I do think that sometimes parents of little ones forget what it's like to be a teenager - and don't understand how their munchkins can turn into big scary boys and girls

I think a lot also depends on your lifestyle.

My sister has grown up children and, whilst I think sometimes she forgets that they could be a nightmare, I also remember them sitting really well at the table.

However, her husband was at home at 5pm everyday and they have always had their evening meals together as a family. Therefore, they have been used to sitting until everyone has finished from a very early age (they are less good at it now they are 19)

DS, on the other hand, either has his dinner at nursery where they all wolf it down and they're off, or at home on his own when again, he gets down when he's finished.

It's my New Year's resolution to make sure we eat as a family at the weekend, instead of throwing some pasta at him whilst DH watches TV in the other room.

YANBU. Could they time these meals around her nap time?

We took 11.5 month old DD to a posh restaurant on New Years Day (MIL's bday and choice). I was quite anxious about her creating a mess/noise etc.

However, sat between me and DH and with a lot of interaction she managed to sit for 40 minutes (with bits of food fed to her off our plates), she then got whiney and I took her away to crawl around in the bar section. It meant I managed to have my starter and main but I was never relaxed throughout any of it.

PS) I would imagine that by 18 months she would not sit as she will probably (?) be able to walk by then?

I was not meaning that yours "should" be able to sit for 40 minutes, merely that its unreasonable to expect any child to sit for too long (does that make sense?!) And its not relaxing for the parent in a formal environment.

YANBU - they do forget and it used to frustrate the hell out of me. I have vowed not to forget (mine are currently 4 and 6 so much easier than they were - I haven't forgotten what those dark days were like yet though, and are so pleased that they are in the past)

You dont know how wonderful it is to hear that by the age of 4 the "dark days" are behind you! 4 years isnt even too long

My FIL really annoyed me at christmas by telling my 2.6-year-old dd off as if she was 7 or something. She'd do things like asking to have the telly on, then wandering off into another room to play with something - and he'd march in after her and shout at her for 'not concentrating on one thing at a time'. I just wanted to shout 'SHE'S 2 FFS!'

Pamelat, I find it far far easier. mine are all between 8 and 4 now and it's a breeze compared to the days of 3 under 5.

today I have 7 children all aged 3-8 and it's still much easier than being at home for a day with a couple of toddlers or a baby and toddler. I have been reading a book, piffling on mumsnet, and they are all just playing away in another room. It's so very different than a couple of years ago.

yes people forget...much as I've forgotten what having a newborn is like (soon to be reminded )

for toddlers meals are all about the food and not about sitting still while adults talk, and who can blame them? they get bored bless 'em

if we are going out to eat with dd, we always take pens, paper, small toys, sticker books etc to help keep her amused whilst waiting for food and waiting for us to finish

but even so we can't take hours over it-it's none too relaxing

Send your dh by himself. It doesn't sound like they're actually paying much attention to their grandchild anyway.... Actually, leave dh at home with dd and go to the restaurant on your own. That should get the message across.

It doesn't matter if they disapprove - she's your child. You are in charge. (and you control access, too ).

Botbot, if my father, nevermind my FIL shouted at either of my children he'd get a serious talking to. I'm amazed you didn't poke him in the eye and tell him to fuck back off!!!

I think grandparents definitely forget! I find that my parents (who had 4 children) seem to expect an unrealistic degree of formality at mealtime.
Maybe it's worth speaking to your MIL or asking your DH to speak to her about having a less formal meal or including your DD more in the coversation so that she dosen't get bored so quickly. Of course, if all 4 of you do this, it won't be as hard work as if it's just you!
If you haven't tried already, let her walk around/ play when you are out until the food comes. If they sit down before it arrives, they will probably get bored. It's worth you all taking it in turns to take her for a little walk between courses also if you are out. I'm sure you've tried bringing toys, crayons, etc already!
Other than that, it just takes time!

You forget a lot quicker than that, I reckon - my sister's LO is 3.5 and my DS is coming up for two. When we stayed with her last year, my DS wouldn't stay put in his high chair, which had no harness and kept wanting to get down.

I said, did she find her LO was like that at the same age. She said, well we just used to ask him to sit down and he did- everyone has different parenting styles

However, can now boast DS sat (with lots of being read books to) through a three hour evening meal in a restaurant when we were away over Christmas

My BIL told me recently that they'd been lucky as none of their 3 children, now teenagers, woke early in the mornings.

But I vividly recall, before I had children, staying at their house, being regularly woken at 4am by small children keen to play hide and seek. On various visits. He'd just forgotten. Totally.

I sympathise with OP. 18 months is a hard age to expect a child to sit for a long time after they've eaten. I suspect sometimes it's also harder to reason with in-laws than your own parents.

With ds (now 2.6 years) - we've always taken him out a lot to cafe's etc but never anywhere formal ( no point, waste of experience) and he's fine whilst he has food and will be distracted by stickers/colouring for a while but once he's got it in his head to get down it all goes to pot a bit.

OP - does your lo sleep at lunchtime? I used to ask my in-laws if they'd mind doing lunch (if at their house) for when ds went down for a nap so that at least I/DH could enjoy our lunch - my mil is pretty reasonable so never minded and just wanted us to have a relaxing time too. Or if we were staying we'd put ds to bed and then have dinner together.

If we go out - it's always somewhere informal (pizza mostly) - where you can get a quick order in for the kids and it arrives whilst they're still hungry and then they don't also worry about the noise/mess etc. If your in-laws expect you to go out to formal lunches (in the nicest possible way) could you do it less often and perhaps find someone who could look after dd for a couple of hours so you could enjoy it ?

Otherwise, I take lots of (probably not very healthy) snacks and stuff which will distract him. It is hard though and my ds is pretty good at sitting at the table for his mealtimes and eats well but likes to get down immediately he's done (why wouldn't he want to ?)

I have a teenager and a toddler. They are equally hard work

YANBU. ds2 is 20 months and I am still trying to teach him to put his plate/cutlery down on the table when he has had enough rather than hurling it across the kitchen. Or spitting out his food when he sees a better option. Or seeing how hard he can bang his cup (leaves dents in the table). So his table manners are somewhat poor. Strangely ds1 suppresses his usual maniac activity level to behave well in restaurants/with visitors and has done since he was about 1. No idea why but we used to have lovely relaxed Sunday pub lunches when he was 2 ish and I was pg with ds2.
For important occassions I would be optimistic that I could keep them both amused at the table for an hour or so. On a good day. With multiple toys to help. I second letting them play on the floor of the room you are eating in, if they are bored and everyone is still sat at the table. With yet more toys.

YANBU. But I really hope not everyone forgets...I mean for all the madness and exhaustion, there are some REALLY fun times too!
My DS is 2years 9 months and the whole he's pretty good in restaurants...sometimes...
He was a nightmare as a baby, I'll never forget our wedding anniversary when he was 5 months old...we opted for buffet style as seemed easiest, and timed for his sleep time...the little b woke up, I ate and dh paced the floor, dh ate and I paced the floor...ds just screamed! FUN!
He's alot better now I can reason with him, and he can entertain himself (and others) with toys...but don't get me wrong...he has his moments...and he has them with style...I just try not to worry, as an earlier poster said...eating is a social experience...your dd is a part of that experience...at 18 months you can't expect her to adapt to you...so just try and have fun with her and sod what others think.
On the upside, she'll be talking more and more over the next months...just encourage her to ask grandma and grandpa to play with her at dinner [evil laugh emoticon]...that way you can pass on your goody bag of toys, enjoy your dinner in peace, and soon enough retrain them into eating in a more child friendly manner! Good luck!

Here's what works for us (our DS is about to turn two, and we do a traditional 3 course meal with friends/family every friday night)
1- encourage toddler to sit at the table for first 20 mins/half an hour, make sure you don't start too late and there is food they will tolerate. sit them on a booster right up to the table, and put them near the middle, with special toddler cutlery,plate etc.
2- ask them to tell you when they are finished, clean hands and face and let them go play. Position near the table a large-ish box of small toys (balls/dolls/ toy cars, stacking cups/ keys/ stckers etc) they can use to play alone in a non destrctive manner (no crayons, etc). My son now loves going to my parents for big meals as he get to play in grandma's toybox. Include in the box some picture boys so they can "read quietly." When it all gets to much and they start getting grumpy (for us half an hour to an hour on a good day) bring them back to the table for another 20mns/ half an hour of food/sociable time, then excuse yourself and take baby to bed/home. That's two hours of nice meal time, so you'll be forgiven for not sticking out more, good luck!

i think lots of people forget how difficult toddlers can be and expect too much of them! most of my friends don't have children and so are always a bit horrified by the amount of attention mine takes up!
however, mine is really good at going to eat out: last pub lunch he was okay through 1.5hrs of dining...and a couple of pints for us! this has taken a while, and it helps that he's got very very into imaginative play. here are some tips from me that may or may not help yr particular situation, cos of course all kids are different.

• i always take some little toys, like finger puppets, a jigsaw, a sticker book, and his favourite cars to play with on the table while he's sitting down. this really helps the waiting for food to arrive and the afterward. mine is very into eating which must help!
• i always let him have what he wants when we eat out. this seems to usually be a pub so he gets to have chips. we don't have these at home, so thats a real treat for him.
• i try to choose places that are GENUINELY relaxed about kids. our local pub is pretty good, the food is served fast, its a working class boozer so they don't expect yr child to sit up all the time and be really polite!
• i get him a juice and water drink before the food arrives, which is also a treat we don't have that much at home.
• he's allowed to share a pudding with his dad afterwards! that means they both are on best behaviour!
• the first five mins at the table are child focused conversation so he can join in and not feel he's missing out/being ignored. after that we usually drift off onto something like the Palestinian Question or the revolution in Greece, but he's happily playing with bob the builder by then! *we eat out in cafes/pubs with other toddlers sometimes. that way he has learnt what is expected of him. he really will sit up for most of the time now.
• choose your table wisely! by a window/wall is ideal, cos then they can get down between your table and the window and nobody will notice.
• remember the classic 'this too will pass'! mines 2yrs and 2 months and a few months ago he wasn't this great at going out to eat. hes got used to it over time, and gets very excited when we go for a pub lunch. i keep saying pub not only cos thats where we usually go, but cos im a bit nervous about posh restaurants too.