to think people with older / adult children must forget what hard work toddlers are?

[PeppermintInAPearTreePatty]

...because they seem to expect a lot from my 18 mo DD.

Today we met a friend in a cafe with his 2 teenage children. After DD had eaten her lunch she started to whinge and wanted to play so I sat her on my knee and entertained her for the rest of the time, which meant I couldn't really join in the conversation with everyone else. At the end of the meal my friend told me I was spoiling DD because I played with her too much I don't know what he expected me to do, maybe ignore DD and let her have a tantrum?!

Another instance is when we visit DHs parents they always either take us out for lunch at a restaurant or cook a big formal three course meal (with wine, napkins, conversation). This is lovely lof them and I loved it pre-DD. However now DD just gets restless and whingey after 5 /10 mins, so to avoid a full blown tantrum me or DH have to take her out the room to play and end up missing our lunch Or if we're in a restaurant everyone stares and it's embarrassing. It annoys my in-laws too, as they can't understand why DD can't be MADE to sit and enjoy the meal

Another time I was trying to get DD to sleep in her buggy (we were out). She had just had a big tantrum mainly because she was very tired. A family friend kept sticking her head into the buggy and talking to DD so started crying again. ARGH!

All these people have children of their own (now teenagers / grown-up), am I being unreasonable to expect them to remember what toddlers are like? Or have they forgotten? Or should I expect more from my 18 mo?

toddlers are a nightmare...and have never been my favourite stage with my Kids....although, I reckon, if I had ys first, I would possibly not have had any further children, due to him being an utter nightmare Brth and Baby, but I think if he was an only he would have been the utterly perfect toddler and now I would be laughing,he would be perfect.....as it is, him having a 6 year old who is able to tease him beautyfully (it is a "wind him up and watch him go" jobby) , he isn't quite as perfect

anyhow....so much depends on the childs nature, it really does....well, for us it was true, my 3 ds's are all so completely different in the way they are and how they behave!

OP, YANBU....your lil one sounds pretty normal.....and I think for now long lunch affairs, etc....without suitable entertainment should be avoided

Peppermint patty- I will never forget what a nightmare child my Ds was. wouldn't eat. Wouldn't sit still. squirmed the whole time.
This was between 18 months and 2 and a half. I thought I'd never be able to enjoy a nice cup of coffee in town as all he wanted to do was hurtle around the place and climb on chairs. Food held no interest to him.

but, hey, since he was about 4, cafes are a real treat for both of us and he has great table manners at more formal occasions. It is a phase and you sound like you are doing just fine!

and the people was have very well behaved toddlers at the table - you are VERY lucky

YANBU Just don't go until your DD is able to cope better. My DS would have sat through the whole thing at 12m but by the time 18m came around there was no way. We are still staying clear of a few places that take a long time DS is 2.5 now.
Yes some people forget how hard it is. My mother is one of those "you kids were ALWAYS well behaved" people, says she never had to disipline us in public. Not quite sure what the daily beatings were for then . I think it's a lie, I remember what my younger brother and sister were like as toddlers - normal kids. It's just a way that they can put a spotlight on their obviously superior toddler parenting skills while not having to back it up iykwim.
My grandmother on the other hand has had 7 children and 25 grandchildren and is the most understanding woman, she hasn't forgotten or at least she is smart enough and has enough experience to see that every child is different and would never look down her nose at someone with a "difficult" toddler, in fact I've seen her lend a hand on more than one occassion. So it is nice to know not everyone does it.

Well we have 6 years between the second and third child and WE bloody well forgot how hard toddlers can be.

We keep saying to each other "were the other two like this???" Erm yes I think they were.

I'm with balloon - we had a six year gap and I forgot how hard everything was!

DS is now 3.5 so just getting through the really hard stage. I find the hardest thing when you go out is waiting for the food to arrive. DS decides what he wants but then gets bored waiting for it.

He will sit still at home for dinner but of course I don't call him to the table until his food is there and ready to be eaten - it's totally different when you go out.

Oh yes -waiting for the food to arrive is a particulary bad time.

Then when it arrives and is so hot that no toddler can eat it!

DD also 18mo and I am smarting from similar experience to OP when my dear parents decided to arrange lunch at Loch Fyne despite my reservations. As predicted she ate half a tonne of bread whilst waiting for food to arrive and then a couple of mouthfuls of pasta and then got bored. I shoved toys, books and colouring pencils at her for another 10-15mins all the time on edge knowing what was coming. Then she starts saying at increasing volume, "get down, get down, get down pleeeeease!!!' It is impossible to distract her from this once the thought has entered her head. I was all for letting her get down and following her around to make sure she didn't annoy anyone too much whilst they slowly ate their puddings but they thought this shocking behaviour and she should be made to sit. So she was made to sit and she howled so loudly that finally I had to carry her outside. I would think that howling is surely a lot more annoying than running around. Then I endured a 'you and your sister were never like that you spoil that child you do lecture all the way home'.

I am probably older than a lot of you (44) but we never went out to restaurants when I was a child.

We were lower middle/upper working class people and it wasn't about money particularly but you just didn't go to restaurants with small children.

So to all these perfectly behaved babies people remember, I think

Well I agree it is why people tend to have a 2/3 year age gap between dcs. When your eldest has become a little easier you contemplate an addition to your family. Of course if you waited until the eldest was a teenager you would NEVER have any more. Toddlerhood is natures way of preparing you for teenagers but mother nature kindly gives you a break between the two!!
Tis why your friends of older children appear to have forgotten about toddlers. They are actually jealous of you and your toddler and regret complaining about what hard work their toddlers were because (ime) teenagers are much harder!!!!

YANBU. I totally empathise with you.
I have had this kind of thing over the Christmas holidays with family too.In fact I had an argument with my Mum on Saturday after she disagreed me with me that toddlers are hard work. This was after a night of hell with my DS ( 20 months) not sleeping.
I then heard her tell my Dad how she was fed up listening to today's mothers whingeing about heir kids. I was so pissed off and told her I really wished her paretnes were alive so I could talk to them about how she was as a mother of a toddler.
I was also asking my sister-in-law on tips for a calming bedtime routine and she always makes it sounds so easy - which makes me feel even more inept. I have tried her tips, but when DS is still running around the house at 7.30, it just doesn't work.
My sis-in-law did actually say toddlers were hard work though - it's the first time I have ever heard her say it.

I think a full on 3 course meal that takes hours, is just way too long for many toddlers, and I've been taking my 21 month old DS to restaurants since he was 2 weeks old. He's now getting to the stage where meals can be an absolute nightmare, and I'm worried that it's going to get worse before it gets better.

My DH and I have been doing battle with each other, actually, because it can sometimes be a 1 hour 'session' with DS to get any food down him at all (he was really ill with tonsillitis and ear infection, survived on formula milk and has now decided that he just wants to drink milk for lunch and dinner, and not eat except biscuits, pureed fruit and raisins, grrrr). Out at a cafe for lunch my DH wanted to try to get DS to eat some omelette but DS only wants to eat the fries - I said through very gritted teeth "it takes an hour of screaming tantrums to get him to eat dinner at home, do you REALLY want to go through that here????!!!!"

But keep trying with the restaurants, just set shorter periods of time that you feel that your toddler can manage, stretching the amount of time a little bit as time goes on. I've found that it can be helpful to try to organise a meal for when DS will sleep, and then I get an hour of 'peaceful time' while he is napping and can dawdle over a late lunch having fed him earlier. (I find a bit of a walk in the push chair before the lunch will get him to sleep if its around nap time).

But, having a toddler is a phase, and sometimes it can be a bit useful.... I've found myself able to avoid really boring people by 'having' to look after toddler while dh gets stuck!

But of course yanbu, as you're missing real adult conversation. But it will end, and soon, a one-course only meal will not be all that's possible for all of you.

Yes, they do forget!!!

Just let it wash over you... I don't worry what people think about my 2.5 yearold - we're happy with our parenting style and choices so who cares what other people think!

It can be a nightmare meeting people without similar age children for lunch etc - try to meet somewhere where your dd can play or get lunch over really quick and then go somewhere else.

lol @ op. Yes, everyone does forget or if we don't, we just don't care any more. It's terrible, I don't condone it.

You do forget-you look at people coping and think-'I'm glad I can now have a meal in peace'! You will be surprised how quickly you forget OP, looking back the stage goes pretty quickly!

YANBU - my son is 18 months and I shudder at the thought of a 3 course meal. We rarely go out to eat now as it is too much, we sometimes pop out to lunch, but choose places that deliver the food FAST. I have also learnt to eat quickly as my ds always finishes his food and says down, down, down, down until we leave.

I get told by my in laws I need to teach him to sit at a table properly [hmmm]. I have also been told he is too messy when he eats, I need to teach him to use a fork properly????

I'm already forgettting and my youngest is only 4. I find myself looking at my toddler nephew thinking, "Why do you keep falling over? Why don't you just sit down and do a jigsaw or something?"

But I would still avoid long smart restaurant meals with my children, they are 8, 7 and 4 now and still it can be a trial.

Both my dcs were difficult in restaurants as toddlers right until in dd's case she was about 4 - then she was more reliable.

I don't think even when my dcs are teenagers will I forget the histrionics.

I suspect that parents of older children might have had easy toddlers. Do ask them how their teenagers are. I am interested to know whether easy toddler = teenager from hell!!

I'm with Custardo - have older children and the nightmare of toddlers in restaurants will forever be etched in my memory. I would love to be able to forget

People do forget. They also forget (IMO) how infrequently people used to go out to eat - it's only happened much in my family since the 80s. Parties, family meals etc used in my family to be always at home (and hence a lot smaller). We never went out to cafes and restaurants as a family at all - the first time I remember doing this (except occasionally on holiday) was when I passed my A-levels in 1987.

Keep working on children behaving well at tables/restaurants, it's worth it. But IMO of course they need quite a lot of entertainment and conversation to make this functional. Between ds learning to walk and aged about 4 I never went to cafes at all tbh.

I was talking about this recently. We bumped into a couple we knew in a restaurant and joined them for lunch. They had a beautifully behaved 6 year old girl who has always had impeccable manners. However, her father kept telling her to be quiet when she tried to join the conversation and she didn't look like she was having a nice time. Very much a seen and not heard child.

I think there is a big sliding scale between letting your children run riot in a Macdonalds ball pit to forcing them to behave beautifully. My 2.8 DS will sit very nicely to eat his dinner but once he's finished he will become restless and want to jump about. We try to coax him into staying longer by involving him in the conversation and distracting him but it rarely works for long. We also try and keep a continous supply of food coming. Breadsticks, meal, dessert, sometimes even followed by chocolate butons I'm hoping that the time will get longer as time progresses and he gets older.

I think the important thing is not to get stressed about it, or what other people think. Mealtimes are supposed to be enjoyable and rewarding social experiences, and your children will never feel that if they are constantly being reprimanded or forced into things.

Bit different at restaurants but at your inlaws can you just wipe her down, shut the doors and put her on the floor with some toys whiel you finish. You can all keep an eye on her but get to have some free time. You don't have to get down from the table to play with her and miss out.

Choosy I don't remember going out to eat when I was young. I'm sure we did on the odd occasion but normally at the end of a day out. Oten my parents would pop in somewhere and buy something and we would eat it on the train or something instead. I

18 months is such a hard age and also its so dependant on the nature of the child.

DS1 a nightmare - wouldn't sit in highchair for a minute longer than it took him to eat his food.

DS2 would sit in highchair for hours as long as he's got food to occupy him.

Table manners are of course important but so are realistic expectations of a small child.

We found going out to eat became a lot more relaxing if we went at less busy times so just a lot less stressful for everyone.