Dh aggressive to ds

[dustyteddy]

I have just witnessed my dh acting in what i think was a very aggressive manner to 3 year old ds. Ds was trying to pick up Christmas presents from under a christmas tree (not ours). So dh tells him to stop. Ds ignores him twice and carries on trying to throw the presents around. Dh is angry by this point and picks ds up by the hood of his coat and lifts him into the air, ds looks and sounds like he can't breathe. I tell dh to stop because I felt it was too aggressive. Dh is upset because he says I don't back him up. I really hate violence and cannot condone this sort of action. He says we are too soft on ds and he will end up spoilt. This the second time dh has flown into a rage at ds and hurt him. Last time he slapped ds face. Dh is from the middle east and said his father smacked him alot as a child and that he said he still respects his father. He says ds should have more respect for us when we say no. Aibu to think violence is not the answer. I think I need some research to back me, as dh doesn't believe me.

If your dh slaps your ds across the face when you are there, what does he do when you aren't?

sorry, but there is no way your dh should be left in charge until he addresses his anger issues. And if he can't/won't then you need to start thinking very hard about your role as your son's protector and what that entails.

At the very least you need to ensure that your son is not left alone with this man if it were me I would send him to the shop, while he is gone gather his things into a bag put them outside and not let him back in.

You have to put your son first.

I should get you both on a parenting class as a matter of urgency.

He's probably broken the law too. YOu have a moral obligaiton to protect your child. This is the problem when people marry people from cultures which engage in barbaric practices like hitting children like that. It's just not acceptable. Tell him you'll report him unless he stops it.

If he leaves marks regularly and a nursery / school see, it WILL be reported to the Child Protection Officer (staff have a responsibility to do such things) - that will get passed on to Social Services and goodness only knows what will happen after that.

I wouldn't take that risk personally - drastic but true.

oh Xenia what a statement... bit like my Polish Mum marrying an English men when caning was still common here,

don't know what she was thinking

As far as I understand it, if he hits a child hard enough to leave a mark, then he is breaking the law. Put this to him and tell him that he risks having your ds taken away.

I am actually more shocked at the lifting by the hood thing. It's like treating your child like a dog, absolutely horrid.
When you slap you know it's wrong, but doing that could have had awful consequences and shows a complete lack of control.

You need a proper talk about this at a calm time without your son around. You should make it clear that it is the last time you'll tolerate it. It will happen again otherwise and you will be partly responsible if you don't put your foot down hon.

you ok dusty teddy? do you feel a bit like the ground has shifted beneath you?

You can sort things out. Don't disappear. I've been on a parenting course!! I'm a single mother so in Ireland that's enough for them to send you the details! + my son has sn,so off I went. The coffee was nice and the people were all grand,not 'different from me' like I'd been expecting at all.

If your husband won't listen to you, it'd be a great way to back up your opinions cos you'll be able to quote the person who gave the course who is qwuoting a child psychologist, durr !!

Also, if you are worried about yourself and your child and the prospect of struggling with his unshakable opinions for the next 20 yrs depresses you, you can leave him.
I left an angry violent man,it can be done. (my x never laid a finger on the children, I would have left sooner if he had!)

Thanks for all your replies. It just makes realise how important to sort this out now. I am already looking into parenting classes for both of us and hoping that dh will agree to come with me. If he won't, I will go anyway, perhaps he will read some of the information they produce.

A further incident occurred this morning, Dh shouted at ds this morning to 'come and brush his teeth now!!! or I will turn off your tv programme.' DS eventually came after 3 warnings but he was obvioulsy upset and in tears at being shouted at and then having the toothbrush forced into his mouth. I have the flu at the moment, so I am feeling extremely weak to stop this at the moment. DH usually shouts me down when I try to intervene and says that ds is crying because he is trying to trick us and manipulate us.

I couldn't sleep last night with worry how I will cope with this. I fear DH will run off back to his family in the middle east. I don't want the family to break up. We also have a 11 month old dd, it breaks my heart to think she may ensure similar treatment.

DH is a christian. Does anyone know of any verse in the bible saying it is not ok to treat children this way? I think he will listen to that, as he comes from a family with strict christian values.

dustyteddy, this all seems quite serious to me. If as you say you're not strong enough to stop it then who will protect your son? I think you need to put your children before your marriage in this case.

I am strong enough to protect my dc's. I was just saying this morning I wasn't able to intervene because I have a flu like virus and have hardly any energy.

Also if your husband shouts at you in front of your son, what message does that give to your son on how he should treat women?

Dusty - wow! Is this coming as a shock as normally you are the one who disciplines the children and he's taking more of an active role as you are ill?

Not sure that a Bible quote is really going to help at this stage as he seems to have an idea about how to discipline children.

His basis seems to be that if they don't get their own way, then they cry which is manipulative.

In a sense, he's right - a child of 3 is getting more an more independent and when they get frustrated, they will cry. But kids also cry when they are scared, upset, sick etc.

However, a child of 3 is probably not being deliberately manipulative. And even if he/she is being manipulative, then it's a parent's role to turn it around, but not with shouting/violence...

What do you do when the DCs say 'no'?

Also, does your DH have instilled ideas, or would be be welcome to suggestions?

I told dh after the 'ds' hood lifting incident' that it was not an acceptable way to treat a child and dh's reponse was that my argument was the reason why 'children are so badly behaved in UK society' I told said that in sweden they don't use corporal punishment and that they don't have the same level of issues with tearaway children that we experience in the uk.

Where he comes from in the middle east the punishments are far stronger than here. For example he was smacked on the hand in school if he was badly behaved (1990's). He said his father took an implement to him and smacked him. He said it gave him respect for his father. I just think it has obviously more damage that good and that raising ds in the same way is not effective and potentially very damaging.

I was also smacked as a child (rarely) but I remember those incidents and the anger in my parents faces, a total loss of control. The problem is my parents say that dh is doing the right thing, so in his mind, this is the most effective way of dealing with naughty behaviour.

"suffer the little children to come unto me"

And he said: 'I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.'"
-Matthew 18:3-4

?See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.
(Matthew 18:10

Am sure there's one about someone who hurts a child being the lowest of the low but can't find it on Google.

It's not only the hitting - although that's bad enough - it's the idea that when ds cries he is trying to 'trick' you. He seems to see ds as a bad person who needs to be beaten into correct behaviour. Instead of a vulnerable 3yo who needs to be loved and looked after and treated with decency.

i've been through what you are going through and you really do have to find the strength to sort this out, before somebody else steps in to sort it out for you!

My dp is also from a different culture, and was tired and stressed with work, and looking after four young children, etc. etc. One of our children has sn and dp has always found him particularly difficult to deal with.
I didn't realise how bad things were between dp and ds1 until ds1 confided to his teachers at preschool and social services became involved. A lot of things had happened behind my back. I'd be worried too, about what your dh may be doing when he has sole charge of the children.

My dp isn't a bad person, and I don't think your dh is neither. It's lack of knowledge, he needs to be taught how to deal with his stress and his children. It doesn't come naturally to everyone, especially if their upbringing was very different to what is acceptable by western standards.

If social services get involved, your dh could face criminal charges. He may be forced out of the family home. He could be required to go onto parenting courses whether or not he wants to. You will have the intrusion of them investigating every aspect of your lives. You need to take action now to sort it before it gets to that stage.

The parenting course that my dp went on was actualyl run by a christian organisation, it is worth looking around to see what you can find.

Your son needs to know he can rely on you. It broke my heart when I discovered that my son hadn't felt able to tell me how bad things were for him, and things that had happened behind my back. He is so small, he needs you to support himm and listen to him.

You an work through this, but you do have to put your son first and you need to lay down some ultimatums to your dp and you an't be worrying about him leaving for his family., Your son omes first! Your dp needs to go on a parenting ourse whether he likes it or not. It might even be worth onsidering family ounselling too, so that you an find a middle ground and parent effetively together.

please dont leave it too late, like I did. We went through a horrendous time with soial servies in our lives and although it was what we needed to get our family in order I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

edam - I think you have a good point and I will raise that with him to see what he thinks.

the course that dp did was a course developed by the famiyl caring trust here

It was run by a local church. If you google church and parentiong courses though, lots come up, I'm sure you could find something local to you.

As part of the course dp had the top book on this page, from pram to primary. He found it really useful, and stillr eads through it sometimes now.

Could it be an option to meet with his/your minister or vicar? Either just you and the minister, or see if your dh will come too. Just a thought. This alongside (possibly) a parenting course of some type may help to focus your dh and make him realise that there are other ways to discipline a child.

"I'm worried what kind of legacy he is leaving ds. I don't want him to be using these methods with his future dcs".

Indeed not but you must act now. You're thsi child's mother and your job is to protect your son. This has happened twice now, it could also start happening with more frequency.

You ask what kind of legacy he could potentially leave to his son - well the same legacy that his Dad has left to his son, your husband. Teaching "respect" through violence is not acceptable regardless of culture.

Oh yes, PLEASE tell your gp/healt visitor.

IF< IF, IF, you end up splitting up and ... well I won't go there, but just take it from somebody who knows, there were things I was bursting to discuss with the health visitor and I really wish I had done. Not just because it would have 'supported' my story and carried a lot of weight IF matters went to court, NOT just that, but I now realise that the ONLY resason I didn't talk to the health visitor was to maintain the facade that everything was ok... Things weren't OK, and if I'd talked to the health visitor it would have been like releasing a valve!

I bet even this thread has been stressful for you, even though people are supportive of you and the challenge in front of you.

Go and talk to Health Visitor, they'll have details of Parenting courses, and if you tell them that your husband is resistant to the idea, they might be able to do a few home visits. I'm sure your husband won't love that, but what can he do?

Good luck, hope you're ok.