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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be annoyed with this sexist reading advice sent home from school?

294 replies

morningpaper · 02/12/2008 17:05

"Until the day your daughter expresses an interest in rocket science or your son gets into showjumping, you won?t go far wrong if you try them out with these kinds of books?

Boys...

  • Enjoy books about their interests - especially dinosaur ones!
  • Like books that are a bit scary, funny or have silly jokes.
  • Often have a shorter attention span, so books you can dip in and out of may work better for them. Try comic strip books and non fiction.
  • Prefer big, bold, colourful illustrations or things that can be moved or touched.
  • Like reading to have a purpose, for example books that show you how to make things or tell you about things.

Girls...

  • Enjoy series of books about the same characters.
  • Like to listen to talking books and watch DVDs of favourite books.
  • Enjoy a bit of fantasy, magic and make believe ? princesses, castles and so on.
  • Like sparkle and glitter on the pages.
  • Enjoy books that have props with them ? dolls, soft toys, dressing-up clothes."
OP posts:
goldFAQinsenceandmyrrh · 03/12/2008 13:18
EachPeachPearMum · 03/12/2008 13:26

erm... where are you selling them (really can't fit any more books in my house..but my mum got rid of all mine)

gingersarah · 03/12/2008 13:27

I think there is a difference between complaining about the content of a book and complaining that it isn't even a proper book. Lights and accessories and sounds and electronic gadgets aren't components of books. Books are made of words and / or pictures.
Reading "rubbish" (especially alone, and especially knowing They don't approve) is all part of reading. Dressing up as a fairy and obediently pressing twinkling buttons is only arguably part of story telling but doesn't have much to do with reading, and is really more about learning to be a good little consumer.
Reading is cheap or free, of course, which doesn't do Leapfrog or Toys R Us much good.

goldFAQinsenceandmyrrh · 03/12/2008 13:27

well I will be putting them on ebay - probably this weekend as I'm childfree so will be able to get into their room and properly go through thema all .

But if you'd like me to send you a list of what i've got before I list them I can do

EachPeachPearMum · 03/12/2008 13:31

FAQ- I will CAT you!

goldFAQinsenceandmyrrh · 03/12/2008 13:32

ok
would be nice to see at least some of them go to somewhere I know they'll actually be looked after and loved like I did (well apart from colouring in a few black and white pictures to make them look prettier lol).

IorekByrnison · 03/12/2008 13:37

Agree the underlying message of Cinderella is shit (although both Eric Winter's Ladybird illustrations and Disney's animation are exquisite). Same goes for the Princess and the sodding Pea. These are acquisitive, narcissistic fantasies for girls. However, pretty much any fantasy is OK in small doses imo. What is more worrying is that this stuff - which is at the heart of most of the "princess" crap around - is being actively promoted as "suitable" for girls to the exclusion of other types of stories and myths.

NoPresentsInVictorianSqualor · 03/12/2008 13:38

Ah Hannahsaunt, Anne of Green Gables, another treasure to add to my list of books I want DD wants me to read to her

Anyway. I volunteer at a toddler/baby group and we were discussing gender issues the other day.

Not one of the children that come fits in any specific gender determined box. There are girls who love trains and won't even consider leaving them to play with anything and some very clean little boys that are almost surgically attached to the vacuum cleaners.

Of course as these children get older the gender differences will become more apparent. Partly due to the influx of testosterone and oestrogen, partly because their brains are wired differently.

When women were not accepted in the work place and family was a Big Deal encouraging children to become used to the role they were allocated due to their gender was just another part of the world they lived in, just as mothers did the cleaning and looked after babies and made themselves look pretty, little girls would do so. Boys were expected to be strong and 'sissys' would be frowned upon, because people believed that this would aid their children to be prepared for their role in adulthood.

In this day and age, however, there is no set role for a man or woman, we can achieve whatever we wish to so surely we should broaden their horizons by encouraging them to read all manner of books, partake in all manner of activities and not give a fig about whether something is for 'boys' or 'girls'.

This 'information' from Leapfrog tells you to choose certain types of books for either sex so that you 'won't go far wrong'.

That's not beneficial to the child, or parent (who may well refuse certain books on the basis that they aren't the books they should be reading) but it will, of course, benefit the people selling books to parents who have children of different genders.

IME, the best way to get children to read is not to pick out a book for them, but to allow them to find one themselves, be it princesses and castles for little Tommy or how the body works for Sarah.

As for the first line, my DD has expressed an interest in Science, so what books do I buy her now?

Fennel · 03/12/2008 14:04

How old is your scientifically-inclined dd?

We have lots of those science encyclopedias you can pick up all over the place, charity shops etc. Also lots of books about nature. How Does Food Get Made, that sort of thing. Old fashioned 70s school books on The Eye, Water, etc are surprisingly popular among my children.

For ages, dd1s and dd2's favourite book, when they were 3 and 2, was a really turgid 70's book "How is Lego Brick made?" - about the oil industry and how oil got turned to plastic and then to lego and then off to the toyshop in a lorry. They adored it.

4yo dd3 currently likes a book called There's no place like space, it's a Dr Seuss copycat style with the Cat in the Hat and Thing One and Two. It doesn't read anything like as nicely as the real Dr Suess books but the girls like it because it's about the planets.

electra · 03/12/2008 14:07

I would be very annoyed at that too.

NoPresentsInVictorianSqualor · 03/12/2008 14:15

She has just turned 8. Most of her books are 'boy books'.
She has a ton of books on how the body works, how things are made, weather, geology etc that were DP's when he was a child but it's really annoying when you go to buy fiction books and they are all aimed at one or other sex.

Itsjustsorandom · 03/12/2008 14:19

What rubbish to write - have none of their products & thank goodness if this is the company image they promote.

piscesmoon · 03/12/2008 14:22

I am horrified that girls can belong to the Scout movement but boys can't belong to the Guide movement-how unfair is that? Our Scouts has had to take girls at all levels and it complicates the rules for camping etc. The girls there have chosen to go, there is plenty of room in the Guides at all levels. I don't think it would be an issue, there is very much a double standard in all these things-some girls want to do boy things but it doesn't happen vice versa.

I was a very girly girl, luckily my parents left me to it and didn't sneer at it.

I think DCs should be left to read what ever they wish, it is a subversive activity in many ways. I think suggestions should be made, otherwise they may miss authors they would love ,but there is nothing worse than be made to feel worthy over it all. Enid Blyton remains popular because she writes a good story and this is despite adults getting sniffy over her! Horrid Henry gets a lot of flack on these threads, however DCs love him and that is all that matters-they grow out of him if left to their own devices.

Fennel · 03/12/2008 14:26

Victorian Squalor, some fiction books for an 8yo which aren't aimed at one sex - Michael Morpurgo and Phillip Pullman seem good on this.

Older ones include Swallows and Amazons for feisty girl role models (though the scientist is still a boy). Or Famous Five for the utterly ungirly George.

Ballet shoes is good for having as its heroine a girl, Petrova, who loathes ballet and ends up an aircraft mechanic. I adored this book as a child and still like it now.

piscesmoon · 03/12/2008 14:30

I adored them too Fennel, especially Swallows and Amazons.I read Ballet Shoes over and over again-however I would be suprised if it appealed to boys. My brother read Swallows and Amazons and Famous Five-he didn't read Ballet Shoes.

Fennel · 03/12/2008 14:35

No, I agree that Noel Streatfield is probably mainly for the girls. But it has a young engineer as heroine.

DP and DBIL (both male) and I all loved Swallows and Amazons as children. It seems to cross gender barriers.

Piscesmoon, one of the reasons I like the woodcraft folk (which my dds go to) is that it had gender equality as a principle right from the start, and still does, in contrast to the guide and scout attempts to remedy the sexism implicit in their systems.

NoPresentsInVictorianSqualor · 03/12/2008 14:47

Ah yes, I loved Famous Five and the Secret Seven.
Just thinking about books that cross both spectrums actually, JK Rowling knew what she was doing casting Hermione as such a strong character didn't she

piscesmoon · 03/12/2008 16:31

The Scouts have remedied the sexism, they have admitted girls for a long time and they are not treated any differently. I am a bit astounded that the Guides haven't, and get away with it!

I think it is very unfair on boys to say that there is no difference. Boys do well when people admit their needs, in general (there is always the exception)they don't do as well with continual assessment and course work as girls. At a young age they don't sit still and listen as well as girls, they like to be doing. They don't socialise as well as girls. It is quite obvious what I have been missing in an all male household, now that my DS has a girlfriend!
I am on a thread about Georgette Heyer; everytime she is mentioned all the Georgette Heyer fans come out of the woodwork! I would quite frankly be amazed if a man had ever read her Regency romances!!

Everyone is an individual-I loathed Anne of Green Gables. I also had no interest whatsoever in rocket science but I know women who have made a career in it. There are exceptions to everything. I agree with OP and it shouldn't have been sent home but I think we have to allow for the fact that (in general) there are gender differences. My DH and DSs certainly don't understand me!

Daisy15 · 03/12/2008 17:20

Totally agree. How sexist. Putting a complaint to the school won't change things but maybe on a larger scale it could.

thebrain · 03/12/2008 17:43

My 5 year old daughter has a free choice of books to bring home from school. Today she brought home a book on rocket science

Just had to share!

nooka · 03/12/2008 18:05

I think I mainly object to really crap books being produced (I won't say written) and then sold on the basis of being pink and sparkly, rather than interesting and well written. Of course reading rubbish is fine, and part of growing up (I still enjoy reading a bit of carefully selected escapist fantasy), I read a huge amount of Chalet School at junior school for example. But it was leavened by all sorts of other more stretching books with great characters (male and female) who did interesting things.

I don't think it does anyone any favours to only give children crappy stuff. Why should they bother to learn to read?

There is nothing wrong with the individual pieces of advice for a parent who has a child who is struggling (my ds for example only really got going with comics - but I made sure they were good comics) but the presentation is appalling. It implies that girls don't like non-fiction, and that boys don't like listening or watching DVDs (I can't believe this one, as all kids I know appear to enjoy both CDs and DVDs).

I made it clear to my children that if they have a free choice (pocket money etc) they can pick whatever they like, but otherwise there are certain categories of books that are banned. From doing this I can see that I am quite right. The books I choose either completely fail (usually where I haven't listened to their current wishes), or are re-read several times. The ones they choose from the crappy sections might get read once, but then never again (because they obviously are crap).

morningpaper · 04/12/2008 15:53

I have a response - and they are going to change the wording, which is good news.

------
Thank you for your message regarding the "we love to read" programme.

We are very sorry to hear that the booklet caused you offence, this was certainly very far from our intention when we were putting together this free resource pack. The tips that you refer to were added to the booklet due to a strong response from mums who participated in an online survey at a leading parenting website, which we undertook before we created the "we love to read " programme. These mums wanted specific gender tips and hints and we worked with teachers and literacy experts to provide these suggestions.

However based on your feedback we have chosen to re-word this section on the "we love to read" website and this change will be implemented by the beginning of next week. These changes will be applied to future re-prints of the physical leaflet.

At LeapFrog we do believe that reading is a essential part of life and that all reading materials are vital to a child's success and this is why we have launched the "we love to read" campaign. We are very dedicated in supporting this campaign going forwards and would appreciate any further feedback on the campaign to help benefit parents
and children alike.

If you have any questions or further suggestions please do not hesitate to contact me.

OP posts:
hatwoman · 04/12/2008 16:18

woo hoo - I got the same response! I wonder how many complaints they got and at what point they thought oh shucks, best change it...

also wonder what parenting website it was...have no memory of it being on here

hecAteAMillionMincePies · 04/12/2008 16:33

ah, a leading fluffy hunny -bunny-- parenting site..

That explains a lot

NotanOtter · 04/12/2008 16:39

yes me too

'power to the people' tooting broadway and all that

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