To think that all those generations of women who battled for equality for women have actually achieved nothing!

[flixx]

All that has changed is that women are now expected to go out and work and well as still being souly responsible for the vast majority of domestic stuff and childcare.

Womens lives aren't better or easier, infact they are now so complicated that half of us are so stressed and knackered we don't even remember who we are anymore.

The role of a mother is less valued by society than it has ever been when we all know that it truely is THE hardest job ever.

Isn't having children a lifestyle choice? Why should the state fund someone's lifestyle choice? Also the implication that all carers/parents are good at their job is not necessarily true. It could be costing the state more to fund a lifestyle for dysfunctional families.

PM, did you really just mean carers of disabled/old/infirm persons?

I see what you mean pw. I agree it's valuable in a wider sense.

fio - I had assumed the point was only about childcare rather than caring in general.

Hey PW no-one here holds sahps in contempt.

Well- anyone who is SAHP to a disabled child is saving the state serious amounts of money, that is for sure- hundreds of thousands of pounds.

who would pay for it? i'm the idealist..i'd have gordon brown sorting that out for me, and god knows this country seems to have a bottomless pit of money (debt) for other causes.

i'm not even sure this is such a big issue anyway, 95% of parents picking up from school are mothers ( at my school anyway)

eachpeachpearmum... having help from the extended family is different from being brought up in a nursery.

oh and btw, you can be a feminist and stay feminine you know.

i disagree policywonk, ihave never ever seen posts on mumsnet holding sahps in contempt, i am sure there must be some - imean sheer volume of posts dictates there must but i don't think its a lot of people at all.

i think with the wohm sahm thing - everyone is shouting "hear me i am in the right!" rather than "your shit cos you are a wohn.sahm" the inference of the latter is felt by both parties simply becuase of the shouting "my way is the best way" the other party get sal "how very dare you!" rather than holding anyone in contempt.

my question is - who would pay for it. parents who HAVE to work? thats not fair.

LOL- who even raised femininity? Are you seriously suggesting the people on here who disagree with you are in anyway not feminine?
Well- this is the internet- yes I could be a hairy trucker or a tatooed bearded lady for all anyone knows!

daftpunk, your worldview and life experiences are so narrow it beggars belief. I think feminism would have done you a world of good, but sadly it has passed you by. Hopefully your daughters will have the opportunities.

I certainly don't agree that parents should be paid to stay at home to look after their children as a default. IMHO, if you can't afford them, don't have them. State funding and benefits should be for people who find themselves in the unfortunate situation where they need help. Carers in the wider sense should therefore be given financial help if the family income is too low.

Sorry, was changing a nappy

Yes, I mean both 'carers' in the popularly-accepted sense (ie to disabled/unwell/high-needs individuals) and in my own, new, shiny sense (ie to NT/physically well pre-schoolers). I think caring is a valuable function and yet is barely valued by society at all. Remuneration would be one way of improving the status of carers (not to mention their financial positions).

I don't really get the 'lifestyle choice' argument. Presumably, staying at home to look after a disabled child is also a lifestyle choice, in a sense?

I could find you any number of posts showing real contempt for SAHPs. Would you like me to?

Daftpunk I have no idea whether or not you are feminine. I'm blardy sure you're not a feminist though.

I think times are moving on and views like Daftpunk's are in a dwindling minority. Which is good, I think and cheering too. More power to more women.

Some countries do actually have 'mothers salaries'- Estonia for one. The salary is 90% of the mothers' previous salary and lasts 2 years. Estonia for example has negative population growth, and they want to increase their population without immigration (very homogenous ethnically).
However- taxation pays for it, and increased population is something the populous agrees is worth funding.
Personally, I'm in favour of a more diverse society, and as resources are scarce enough, curbing population growth would be a good thing.

Can I just hastily add that I'm talking about the choice to stay home, not the choice to have a disabled child.

have you thought of moving to Estonia, Daft?

i tell you something i don't want for my grandchildren, i don't want them brought up by strangers, while my daughter hands over half her salary for the privilege....if that's prgress you can keep it.

Yes unfortunately for many people the prohibitive cost of childcare means that staying at home is not a deliberate choice to be embraced willingly. Equally the prohibitive cost of property means that people do not have a choice as to whether or not to work. Choice still exists for a lot of people though, and it would be great for that luxury to be available for more.

annie - I never read Xenia's posts! I agree that nobody wants another tedious SAHP/WOHP thread. But I just disagree that no contempt is shown to SAHMs on here (although not necessarily this thread - can't remember whether it has or not on this one). Lots of posts absolutely drip with it.

But yes, you're quite right that insulting things are also posted against women who choose to take up paid employment, and that's just as bad.

feminity? Oh yes I remember that

"ding ding"

So who wins the WOHM bingo first "brought up by strangers" comment.

My money was on 10.43am so I'm out of the money.

My Cm would be mightily pissed off at being described as a stranger. DS knows her better than my sister and presumably you wouldn't have a problem with a family member minded him? Or are they verboten too?

my dd was looked after by a nanny for the first 9 years of her life. I would struggle to describe her as a stranger.

No kew... I saw it first but I was too polite to comment